The Sims Wiki talk:Community Portal

The Sims: Medieval
Are we gonna cover this game? Is it part of 'The Sims' series? http://www.simprograms.com/the-sims-medieval-first-screens-and-preview-by-tsr/ Duskey ( talk ) 15:19, July 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The link is bad; here's one that works (currently): http://www.thesimsresource.com/news/view-post/post/18586/The%20Sims%3A%20Medieval#comments


 * As for your question, if the game is confirmed by EA, then yes for the time being. We should have a page for it up to and until it's proven that the game isn't in line with other titles in The Sims series. So, my feeling is that we should create a page for it (once it's confirmed), and resolve the issue of whether or not it belongs here, at a later date after the game is released. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 21:24, July 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think our The Sims game rumors page is the only working link now :p I agree with LIR above. We should report on it when it is announced and after that we can decide whether it belongs here or not. Who knows, someone else might make an independant wiki about it. Duskey ( talk ) 02:50, July 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * Discussion is resolved; game is officially announced; will hold off on final decision until after release. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 19:02, August 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * A game magazine revealed some 'professions' or 'positions' that Sims can be in in Medieval. There's Doctor, Blacksmith, Wizard etc. How do we handle that if people start adding these pages? In my opinion, anything about the Medieval Doctor, doesn't belong on the same careers page as the Doctor or Medicine. It should be 'Doctor (medieval)'. Duskey ( talk ) 14:31, August 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Seeing as how the article on Medieval is completely undeveloped and has been for quite some time, I'm beginning to think no one is willing to update on this game's content. During GamesCom and ever since there's been lots of previews revealing all kinds of facts and gameplay features about the game (I'm guessing there' some 20-25 previews), but none of the info has been added to the article. It should have it's own project similar to the other games, but I doubt anyone is willing to contribute. -- Duskey talk 12:39, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Voting
Do you agree or not with The Sims Medieval being covered in The Sims Wiki?

Agree

 * 1) I think it should cover all Sims games (from The Sims series), and since this wiki covers The Sims Stories, which is a The Sims 2 spin-off, I think we should cover this The Sims 3 spin-off, with some contributors or not... ---   Rodrigo X    20:47, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Families with one member
I'm beginning to see some family pages with one family member. Wolfe household & Curry family to name a few. Perhaps it's time for a policy or guideline stating that these pages aren't neccesary npr do they hold any information that cannot be added to the one Sim in the family. What do others think? To me they're just articles with no info on them, wasting space. Duskey ( talk ) 02:52, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

I think we should keep them anyway. I don't think it matters if its one person. They're still a family. Jason   Talk To Me!   02:56, July 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's nothing on the family pages that can't be included in the sim's page, unless that sim is the only person left living in their family (and the other members are visible on the family tree). I say delete the pages. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 02:58, July 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's exactly my point, Jason. If it's just one person there is nothing you can add to that page which you couldn't add to the Sim page. If these pages weren't family pages they'd get merged or deleted due to lack of content. Duskey ( talk ) 10:29, August 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * redirect. --a_morris (talk) 23:54, August 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, I did it to the Steel family -> Christopher Steel. I made sure to move the info on the family page to the Sim page and also moved player stories. I also remember to delete the family picture (which wouldn't add anything to the Sim page and was of poor quality). Do you agree that this is the right way to do it? Duskey ( talk ) 16:17, August 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm, what about the family difficulty? -- Duskey talk 14:59, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

The Sims Wiki Battles
We are already in the midst of creating a Sims Wiki Battles feature. These battles will work like the battles at the Final Fantasy Wiki and the Kingdom Hearts Wiki. Users can vote for or nominate a fight between two things in The Sims series. These things can be Sims, Objects, Life states, anything like that. After a fight is chosen, users can then vote for which of the two things they want to win. After the fights time is up, the thing with the most votes wins, and a new fight is chosen from the nominations. We have already created the Battle layout and are considering the Sims Wiki page it will be on. Please feel free to tell us what you think about this new feature. Thank you. --Random Ranaun 22:18, August 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've added my take on how to implement this. I made a template Simbattle and you can see it in action with three examples here: The Sims Wiki:Sandbox/SimBattle. Duskey ( talk ) 03:45, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Cars & Vehicles
How should we list and categorize cars &amp; vehicles? With FLS incoming we'll need to sort it out. Duskey ( talk ) 16:23, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Once FLS hits I have half a mind to make an extra menu item in the main menu, pointing to the page and associated pages. Duskey ( talk ) 19:05, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Menu item would be great, and when it comes to the pages themselves I suggest Car, Motorcycle, and Scooter pages with sections for each buyable car and one section for non-driveable/career reward cars. Ae jarv 20:53, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

The Beast needs to be moved to "Motorcycle" and have "The Jamboree" added to the page, and The Kenspa needs to be moved to "Scooter" and have "The Scoot Mobile" added to the page, I did that and Duskey changed it back, why?--Eduardog3000 01:06, September 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * If there's more than one scooter and/or motorcycle, then having a "Scooter" or "Motorcycle" article would be consistent with the way similar situations have been handled. Dharden (talk) 01:54, September 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is what I am saying, there is now 2 motorcycles and 2 scooters, i tried moving The Beast to Motorcycle, but Duskey changed it back.--Eduardog3000 02:17, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Since everyone seems to be in agreement, I don't see any harm in going through with moving the pages. I know Duskey wanted to wait for discussion, but I really don't think there will be much more of it, and in any case, I really don't think there's much of a disagreement about what should be done, so frankly there's not much to discuss. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 02:49, September 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Having a Car, Motorcycle, Scooter & Bicycle page sounds good to me. Perhaps the motorcycles and scooters can share the page since their function is identical (2 wheels, not useable by children). Then the types would be split in 3: Cars, 2-wheelers for teen+ and 2-wheelers for children+. The tables or galleries of the vehicles should be split between buyable and not buyable, in my opinion. -- Duskey talk 13:37, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

I like a complete list that has all vehicles in a single page. As long as the types came in order (i.e. motorcycles followed by scooters), it should be fine :)

Ilovefoxes 14:29, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

It would be best just to have a page for Cars, a page for Scooters and a page for Motercycles.Eduardog3000 20:38, September 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have to say I agree with Ilovefoxes. The vehicles are in the same category in the game, there's no reason they shouldn't be in a list. I suggest a 'Vehicle' article with all the text and a few pictures. It would have sections about cars, motorcycles/scooter and other vehicles, but the actual images and info on each car would be in 'List of Vehicles in The Sims 3'. There should be a list for each game in my opinion. -- Duskey talk 09:29, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I honestly think Scooters and Motorcycles need their own page.--Eduardog3000


 * Having seperate scooters and motorcycles would prevent users from comparing them directly to each other and to cars, which personally is something I'd like since it's not directly available in the game. -- Duskey talk 23:59, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Any artists among us?
Do we have any artists among us who are semi-good at making wallpapers? I "borrowed" a wallpaper from The Sims Supply and inserted a greyscale logo in the table (it needs to brighter, I know), but this is what the portal COULD look like. However, I'm not very keen on ripping off The Sims Supply so if anyone can create a similar wallpaper that'd be awesome. There are some requirements however.
 * Needs to be at least 1680px width (Article space with Monaco skin at 1920x1080 resolution)
 * If it's a 1920x1080 wallpaper we'll just resize it and then we also have a TSW desktop image :D
 * Needs to fade out to white at the bottom, or it's gonna look funky.
 * Light colors are preferred, nothing pitch black.
 * Should contain the TSW logo (File:Wiki.png) if you put in the middle it'll be hidden by the table, that's a good thing.
 * Must be FLS and/or LN themed.
 * No video caps, they look horrible. Promo images and renders only.

If you wanna do something similar to The Sims Supply's picture, I believe they're using a toned down neighborhood picture and then some promotional images from the game. See also their current LN background for inspiration.

I'd you're interested it could be nice to do this for all future releases and maybe the non-game portals too. Duskey ( talk ) 17:03, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Miniboxes
I wanted to make templates to mark articles who had a portal, userbox and/or a shortcut associated, but I can't quite decide between the big or the small ones. Any thoughts? Duskey ( talk ) 17:43, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

I like the minibox better myself. It has been updated and I'm requesting comments. Template:Minibox Example. -- Duskey talk 09:35, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Unless anyone objects I'd like to roll out this feature soon. -- Duskey talk 15:12, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I announced the feature. -- Duskey talk 23:40, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Marking Wikia as a bot
Would anyone object to marking User:Wikia as a bot so the "Welcoming new user" and "Generating talk page" or whatever it says, so itdoesn't show up in recent changes by default (you can show it by clicking "show bots")? If you're worried about missing new users you can also see them in the log. Duskey ( talk ) 20:03, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Done. -- Duskey talk 12:31, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Advanced player story link
I've added an "advanced" player story link to Template:Sim and Template:Simbio-end. The link is down below. If there is no subpage in the current articles named "Player stories" it created a link which, when clicked, takes you to a new page with the text  already added to the edit section. Try it below:



Before I add it to neighborhood and other infoboxes, I wanted people's opinion on this (and hopefully discover any bugs) and I also wanted to know if it should be added to any more bio infoboxes. I checked most of them, but apart from "sim" they all seemed to rely on "simbio-end" for the playerstories.  Duskey ( talk ) 20:17, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I inserted it into family-end, pet and neighborhood as well. -- Duskey talk 10:09, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Featured content cleanup
Or featured content archive isn't too good. There's loose template and categories floating around from when the wiki was created. Before attempting to make some sense of it, I would like your opinion on a new template to show an article has been featured. It's being tested on the Riley Harlow article. Lemme know what you think. Duskey ( talk ) 23:52, September 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've made some headway in clearing it all up. The Sims Wiki:Featured Content will be the main page. I created Template:Featured content navbox to navigate through it all more easily. I added a new template I made Template:Feat art, to previously featured articles. It automatically includes era, which in return includes the category. I intend to do the same for media and contests soon'ish. I also intend to add the nav template to the voting pages.


 * I ran into a problem though. The old featured system had some undated articles which are new at the bottom of The Sims Wiki:Featured Article/Past Articles. If anyone can figure out how to get the month they were featured, that'd be awesome. -- Duskey talk 12:41, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Those articles were not featured monthly. They were for use by Wikia like ads. --a_morris (talk) 20:55, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * So it's okay to delete the bottom ones with no month attached on past featured articles? -- Duskey talk 20:24, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've finished marking the past featured media with Template:Feat med and I also redirected all the redundant The Sims Wiki:Featured Article etc. pages to The Sims Wiki:Featured Content (which has also been updated. Furthermore, I included the navigation template on all associated pages now. -- Duskey talk 14:48, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Where/what are these screenshots from?
We're nearing completion in cleaning up Special:UnusedFiles, but I need some help in identifying a few images:

-- Duskey talk 08:25, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think these are just generic screenshots from The Sims (console) and The Sims 3. Anyone could have just uploaded them as part of some kind of story. If these images are orphaned, I suggest deleting as these could just be player-captured images. GEORGIEGIBBONS (talk) 18:56, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing out it was TS1 on console, I added the screens to that article. I disagree with deleting them since the remaining shots can be used in a lot article. If someone can identify the lots we can put them in the appropriate article. That article might even be missing an image. -- Duskey talk 05:03, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggest asking the uploader (if not already done) to find out lot names and what pages they should go to. GEORGIEGIBBONS (talk) 16:54, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the first one is of Hogan's Deep-Fried Diner of Twinbrook so I suggest we use in that article. The other ones I don't know. Guilherme Guerreiro 16:59, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * From looking at Diner, I think the first one is actually Burton's Boxcar Diner as this image and the Boxcar image have identical designs. GEORGIEGIBBONS (talk) 17:07, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're right. Deleted as a duplicate. Now we just need the others. -- Duskey talk 22:40, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * The one on the left was uploaded from the same user as the one who uploaded the boxcar diner image. This user seems to have disappeared from this Wiki, so asking won't be any good. The image on the left says "Bar" on the image, so I'm not too sure how it should be classified. The 2nd image seems to be hard to identify as I have not played The Sims 3 on PC. The information given with the image seems to be unhelpful as it only says "YE OLDE TUDOR", these images could be anything. GEORGIEGIBBONS (talk) 16:20, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

First one was "The Red Rendezvous" a Hangout in Twinbrook. One to go. -- Duskey talk 20:29, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Oh I think I know that one is the Sekemoto family home in Sunset Valley but I'm not certain of it.o_o. ---Guilherme Guerreiro 20:33, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

I think it is the house next to the Sekemoto's one: on the right, one can see a yellow house, and which looks like the Sekemoto's home. JM9193 06:38, September 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're right, it was 28 Sim Lane. I thought all TS3 houses had articles here, guess I was wrong. -- Duskey talk 00:58, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Era template on all pages?
Now that Era no longer overlaps with the sitenotice and moves down with the rest of the article, I'd like to discuss the implementation of the Era template on all pages. I know other wikis use this method to quickly give users and overview of which games the article is about. We need to keep in mind that this is a huge undertaking as we have 5,500+ articles at the time of writing. I also think it's important that the icons are small. The game icons for example are huge at the moment and quickly clutter up the space. I suggest the icons are no larger than the padlocks (32px width I think) and that The Sims 1 logo be reduced to their first letter or something similar. What are your ideas? Would it be a helpful addition to our wiki? -- Duskey talk 06:26, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I think it would be a great addition Dusk, thank you for suggesting it. I knew there was something that was missing, but I think that the logos should stay the same with all the letters, but just decrease the size a bit.-- DarthCookie  07:42, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler Alerts
I see that a new spoiler system Spoiler-header and Spoiler is being introduced to the Wiki. However, I have to question the use of these templates.

Let us look at the example of Lostpedia, the Lost television series wiki. They have a spoiler policy, but it only governs the release of information before that information becomes available to the general public; for example, exposing the plot of an unreleased episode (the series has ended, but you know what I mean). However, they have no policy prohibiting presentation of information, even info that would be a spoiler to a person reading it before watching an episode, after the information is publicly-available. That means that articles on that wiki can reveal very detailed information, including information that might ruin the experience for people who choose to read an article before watching the episode(s).

What does Lostpedia do about this? Nothing. They do not give spoiler warnings on any articles that feature released content, because of one key concept - Users who visit Lostpedia are aware, or should be aware, that there is information present that may act as a spoiler. Wikipedia functions off a similar procedure; they provide any information you may want to find, even about books, movies, television shows, etc. even if that information may ruin the entertainment experience for a person who chooses to spoil it for themselves. It's understood that the information must be provided, and that readers themselves should be cautious to avoid spoiling the ending, if they haven't experienced it yet.

Therefore, I would encourage not using a spoiler system. It should be well understood that visiting articles on this site has a very real chance of presenting information that a player has not yet had; this is the very nature of a wiki that acts as a repository of information about a series, including its plot. At the very very most, I would favor a system similar to the Harry Potter wiki, where a general spoiler notice is permanently kept in the site notice, so that new users are aware of spoilers prevalent throughout the wiki, and experienced users can just ignore it.

Thoughts? -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 20:37, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, I was thinking about asking the same question myself. Spoiler-header template was already present (under the name 'Spoiler'), but only used on very few pages. The hide/show table was actually also used on some pages, just not in template form, so there's no been no change really apart from it being templated now and used across most articles containing storyline spoilers. I'm not sure I agree with a general spoiler disclaimer and no hide/show tables since people could be playing The Sims 3, looking up Bella Goth and finding spoilers about a console version game. It's true that in the future there may be hundreds of spoilers regarding all these Sims stories and spin-offs. I'm quite indifferent I believe, but I do think we need either a policy and disclaimer about spoilers or the current system of collapsible tables. I'm open to any other suggestions as well. -- Duskey talk 09:31, September 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * My opinion is that the very best idea would be to make it readily known that many of our articles contain spoilers, and that articles that contain spoilers won't warn readers. Make it known, perhaps, that articles detailing gameplay and not the characters themselves (such as articles about the games and expansions, modes of play, neighborhoods, etc) will not contain information that readily spoils the outcome, but that Sim pages and family pages may contain such information. I'd make all this available in an easily-accessible location, possibly the main page (but I understand logistically that may be a challenge) or else, as I said before, as a site notice (which all users could dismiss once they've read it). But I think the idea of adding spoiler warnings to any page that has some relevance to the plot is really extreme. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 18:47, September 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps it's time to replace the "no fanon" permanent notice to a spoiler alert. It's clearly not working any way since people are not aware that a) What "fanon" and "player stories" are until their page is deleted, and b) that creating personal articles in the main namespace is against our policy, until their page is deleted. -- Duskey talk 11:54, September 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Speaking purely from my personal opinion, I really don't understand the point of a spoiler alert here at all. The plot of these games is very superficial and simplistic at best, not nearly the same level accomplished by most books, television series or movies. Personally, I don't think we need any sort of spoiler alert, because I really don't think there's much in the game that can be "spoiled." Like I said, this is purely my opinion, so I'm fine with a general spoiler warning. Like I've said, though, I think adding or leaving spoiler warnings on all relevant pages is excessive.


 * Also, Duskey... we know how many people ignore (most likely by accident) the notice notifying them of the fanon policy, but do we know how many visitors to this wiki actually acknowledge it and don't post fanon here? I'm not sure if that question makes any sense, so imagine a hypothetical situation where 10 people come onto TSW and all want to post fanon. Now imagine that 8 of those 10 people read the notice and realize that we don't allow fanon; they leave. But, those two that didn't notice the notice, or else those who don't understand what 'fanon' is, post it anyway. So, in this hypothetical situation, if we were to remove the notice, those 8 who didn't post fanon would not be warned not to post it, and would therefore post it.... granted, this is all hypothetical, based on made-up figures. I don't know of any way to determine how many people acknowledge the notice and how many don't. Perhaps the best idea is to include basic rules, including the no-fanon policy and spoiler warning, in that notice... maybe an increase in size would make it more noticeable? -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 14:14, September 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is true. I will then suggest adding a news post (and sitenotice) about this change and add that as a guideline we do nothing to hide spoilers since spoilers are rare in these games. -- Duskey talk 15:42, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

The templates have been deleted and removed from the articles. A news post, sitenotice and notice in the top area of the main page has been posted. -- Duskey talk 00:37, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Placement of certain templates in articles
I've noticed a lot of inconsistency in the locations of templates placed in articles. What I am referring to are templates such as merge, delete, split, stub, and others. The main thing I've noticed is that on some articles, those templates are placed quite prominently at the top of the article or at the head of a relevant section. On other articles, I've noticed them placed near the bottom, making them less noticeable.

What I propose is this: a Wiki-accepted standard that certain templates (which include merge, delete and Speedydelete, split, and possibly others) be placed at the top of the article or, if the template only applies to a particular section, that it be placed at the top of the relevant section. Additionally, I propose that we adopt a standard that the stub family of templates always get placed at the very bottom of an article (unless it is the expand template, which is used on individual sections only), so that all stubs will be visible in the same place and all will group together. The style I am proposing is intended to mimic the style used on Wikipedia.

Discussion is appreciated. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 22:53, September 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. -- Duskey talk 11:54, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Custom external link icons
Would people be up for adding customized external link icons? Eg. as seen in the preview on the right. All links starting with  will have a little Google icon next to them, similar to the standard "blue arrow out of a box" icon. I just wanted to check if it something people wouldn't mind being added.

Personally I think it's a wonderful feature, I've often felt that the external links needed a bit of an upgrade as we often link to some specific sites, such as Google translate, Wikia Community Central and Wikipedia (and other Wikimedia) sites. If people think it is a good idea, I imagine we'll add icons for the sites I mentioned just now:
 * Google translate
 * Wikia Community Central
 * Wikimedia (Wikipedia and Commons in particular)

You can check Help:Changing the style of interwiki links which showed me how to do it. Any thoughts? -- Duskey talk 12:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't mind some test pilots in this new feature. All you need to do is add the following code (all of it, scroll down) to User:yourusernamehere/monaco.css (Example)

 background: transparent url(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100913122521/sims/images/4/44/Google_icon_mini.png) no-repeat scroll center right; padding-right: 15px; margin-right: 5px; }
 * 1) bodyContent a[href^="http://translate.google"], #bodyContent a[href^="http://translate.google"]:active {

background: transparent url(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100920024537/sims/images/8/87/Wikia_w_blue_10x6.png) no-repeat scroll center right; padding-right: 15px; margin-right: 5px; } background: transparent url(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100920024537/sims/images/8/87/Wikia_w_blue_10x6.png) no-repeat scroll center right; padding-right: 15px; margin-right: 5px; } background: transparent url(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100920024537/sims/images/8/87/Wikia_w_blue_10x6.png) no-repeat scroll center right; padding-right: 15px; margin-right: 5px; }
 * 1) bodyContent a[href^="http://www.wikia.com"], #bodyContent a[href^="http://www.wikia.com"]:active {
 * 1) bodyContent a[href^="http://community.wikia.com"], #bodyContent a[href^="http://community.wikia.com"]:active {
 * 1) bodyContent a[href^="http://www.community.wikia.com"], #bodyContent a[href^="http://www.community.wikia.com"]:active {

background: transparent url(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100920032556/sims/images/1/1a/Wp_mini_icon.png) no-repeat scroll center right; padding-right: 15px; margin-right: 5px; } This will create icons after the following links: Go about the wiki as you normally would or explore some new pages, perhaps pages you think would hold many of these kinds of links. Post here how it looks and feels. -- Duskey talk 07:01, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) bodyContent a[href^="http://en.wikipedia.org"], #bodyContent a[href^="http://en.wikipedia.org"]:active {
 * Translate Google [[File:Google_icon_mini.png]]
 * Wikia & Community Central [[File:Wikia_w_blue_10x6.png]]
 * Wikipedia [[File:Wp_mini_icon.png]]

Sims 2 castaway NDS items
"Hey Duskey. Can you please bring up a subject to the community? It is about this page. As you can see, it includes hundreds of red links that need to be deleted. I'm quite sure this can't be a one man job. I don't know where to bring this up, so could you do it for me? Thanks, JEA13 [ iTalk  ] 14:17, September 13, 2010 (UTC)"

I think it's worth a discussion. Should we keep the redlinks in the hope of creating multiple articles, which I assume can't be very large, or delete the links? Any thoughts are welcome. -- Duskey talk 22:44, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * If creating pages really was desirable, would it be possible to lump multiple items together into one page by type, then either edit the links to all direct to those condensed pages, or else set up redirects to link to the condensed pages... I lean more towards re-linking them, if we decide to take that route at all. I'm not an expert on console games, though, so I don't know if pages on all of those are even really necessary. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 22:47, September 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I do not personally think there is an issue over here at all. We can't just go on and create hundreds of articles about a recipe found in just one game. All redlinks should be removed, and existing articles about recipes and ingredients be deleted. - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 12:27, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know there'a already a List of recipes from The Sims 2 Castaway (NDS), why not create a List of ingredients from The Sims 2 Castaway (NDS)? Some of the articles have info from The Sims 3 as well (eg. Watermelon), though this is quite redundant as that info is already available in Gardening (The Sims 3). -- Duskey talk 12:33, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think that would applicable. We can't include Sims 3 info in a Sims 2 Castaway for DS article. And responding to my own hypothetical question "why not delete Gardening (The Sims 3) as well then", well, there's certainly a difference between Castaway and the Sims 3, which is the most recent, most played and still "under construction" Sims game.
 * Actually, I think you misunderstood my above quote. My initial intention was to keep the article itself, but remove all ingredient/recipe links on the page, red or blue. And delete the pages on the blue links as well, since they are of the same importance as the red ones which would never be created. I never said anything about deleting the page itself. A lot of effort has been put up in building it.- JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 12:42, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think we're completely misunderstanding each other. I recommend that we keep the article "List of recipes from The Sims 2 Castaway (Nintendo DS)" and create a new one called "List of ingredients from The Sims 2 Castaway (Nintendo DS)" which would be a long list of the items, with a section for each item. After that, we can delete the single pages if there's not enough content on them. -- Duskey talk 14:51, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say no to that. - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 15:21, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

As per this discussion I removed the many red links from the list of recipes. I also shortened "Nintendo DS" to "NDS". I then created List of ingredients from The Sims 2 Castaway (NDS) from the fruit and vegetables templates. I encourage the editors who have these games to update the lists and format them properly, perhaps with the use of a table. -- Duskey talk 20:38, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

WIN edit is WIN :) - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 20:59, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Took me 5 seconds or so. I use an expanded notepad program. I just copy+pasted the text, told it to remove all  and   et voilá! -- Duskey talk 22:02, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wow! - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 07:41, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

VickyBot has marked the single fruit/vegetable articles which needs to be merged into List of ingredients from The Sims 2 Castaway (NDS). Check Category:Articles for merging. Have at it :) -- Duskey talk 00:22, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Pages for Hidden Traits
It occurs to me, as we now have a page for Rocker, that there may not be a consensus for or against the creation of pages for hidden traits. I think there are two outcomes to this; 1) these trait pages will continue to be deleted or to redirect to Trait, or 2) new pages will be created for the dozen or so hidden traits that currently do not have pages. Let's resolve this finally, so we don't continue to flip-flop. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 03:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm against it since I do not think hidden traits are used enough or have enough info for their own article. I also do not agree with listing the hidden traits mummy and simbot in the trait list since they're nothing like the other hidden traits (ie, if you have a mummy or a simbot, you're quite aware that they are in fact a mummy or a simbot). -- Duskey talk 12:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Duskey. We have few information to talk about in that articles and these rarely show up. Guilherme Guerreiro 17:03, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose- There is not enough information about hidden traits to warrant providing each with their own article. I suggest adding any and all relevant information to the Hidden Traits section on the traits page, or else creating a new page - Hidden Traits - that fully details all hidden traits. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 21:57, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose- Only after creating all of the articles for Hidden traits did I realize that they were unneeded. They don't seem to affect lifetime wishes or anything in any way. I also support either moving them back the Trait article or creating a a Hidden Traits article. --Random Ranaun 02:28, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

I made Hidden trait and moved them out of trait. I also deleted the single hidden trait pages. -- Duskey talk 22:05, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I re-linked all the hidden traits on the trait page's table to the appropriate section on Hidden trait. This should hopefully be the last of this issue. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 01:06, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Careers in Sim bios
Cheesepie1011 brought up an interesting suggestion on my talk page: How about adding careers to the Sim bio templates? -- Duskey talk 09:32, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Support, not at all a bad idea. GEORGIEGIBBONS (talk) 15:23, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Support: Why not - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 16:11, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Support: Well I think it is an very interesting a idea and I think you should have categories about carreers too. What do you think? Guilherme Guerreiro 17:07, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Support Also, what do you mean Guilherme? Like have categories such as Sims in the X career? So Sims in the Education Career or Sims in the Law Enforcement career would be categories? If you were to create categories like that, you could set the bio template to automatically place certain keywords into the correct category (for example, if Sim X was a police officer, writing in 'Law Enforcement' would automatically place him in the correct category), and if a Sim had no job, they would be placed in an unemployed category. Is that what you have in mind? -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 18:16, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah it is. Why did I said something wrong. Guilherme Guerreiro 18:22, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I was just making sure. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 19:39, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I don't think it's a bad idea, but it's going to be a hassle editing the master template to do what you plan on doing.-- DarthCookie 07:39, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

I've been trying to wrap my head around how to do this properly. We'll need to edit the master Sim template. We can easily add an optional career parameter. I imagine we'll add the rank of the Sim and then the template can figure out the rest: Eg. which career it is and at what rank. It's gonna get technical below.
 * Output and categorization

I'm calling the parameter  over   since we want the job level and not the career. The switch in the template could look like this:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Sims always start at maximum level 3 of a career? -- Duskey talk 06:49, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

If you are talking about Sims 3, there are people like Iqbal Alvi that start with level 1 on their job. Does anyone noticed that in some neighborhoods level jobs xhange like you have an archive with Gunther Goth as CEO when you start the game but when you start a new archive he could be at level 5 on his job? That is happening in my game and I think that happens in most games. This will possibly start another discussion. ---Guilherme Guerreiro 18:48, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

How do we locate Sims without a career? We could add a category to them eg. or something like that, but that would showup for all the console, stories and urbz Sims as well. I suppose we could use DPL, but I'd like to avoid that due to the server load. Perhaps we could sort them by their neighborhood (since no one uses the  parameter any way).
 * Locating Sims without a defined career

The following code should add a Sim to the category if  isn't define and they're part of a neighborhood from a game which has careers in it.

I'm not sure if this'll work and I'm not quite sure what'll happen when used in conjunction with Sims present in more than one neighborhood, eg. Bella Goth. Does anyone know if the neighborhoods in games with careers appear in other games as well? -- Duskey talk 06:49, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Implementation
Since this idea is receiving general support, I think we need to start discussing exactly how we're going to implement it. I like the idea of editing the master template, but it will admittedly take a lot of work and some time. Additionally, I see a couple issues regarding whether or not someone is actually employed in a certain career - this may be significant if the statement made above about some Sims changing jobs between games turns out to be true. In any case, we really shouldn't move forward on implementing the changes until we've hashed out all the issues here first. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 00:30, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Recent changes patrol
DarthCookie has suggested that we enable Recent changes patrol which basically means that edits in RecentChanges will be colored yellow (Similar to how NewPages already is) until someone with "patrol rights" marks it as "patrolled", which means it's been checked and it's okay. It can be set so users with a special patrol rank can mark edits as patrolled or it can be set so only administrators can mark pages as patrolled. Be sure to check out "New Pages" to see an example. What do people think? -- Duskey talk 16:10, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Who will get patrol rights? - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 16:13, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Support - I would say that bureaucrats and administrators would get the rights automatically upon receiving a position, perhaps even automatically giving them to rollbackers. I would say that receiving patrol rights could be given out to other users based on trustworthiness. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 18:12, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * My suggestion would be that rollbackers and admins get patrol rights. -- Duskey talk 19:23, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Support- Same reason as above. ---Guilherme Guerreiro 19:27, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Support - I was basing it off of wikiHow's patrol app, which allows all registered users to patrol articles, talk pages edits, etc. ---DarthCookie 04:30 September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't be in favor of extending patrol rights automatically to all registered users, since it would be easy for a person who wishes to do harm to create a name, log in and cause damage that way. I think allowing users to apply for it (with prerequisites lower than that of a rollback or administrator) would be a better idea, since the bureaucrats handling appointments would be able to sort out the good users from the bad ones. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 04:43, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I meant. Besides I would be the first to apply, I love patrol on wikiHow.-- DarthCookie  07:36, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest that rollbackers automatically get patrol rights. They're already trusted persons and it would prevent the ranks from being overly complicated. -- Duskey talk 22:01, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, my rollback request is still pending. :angry face:-- DarthCookie 22:03, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

I'd just like to explain in further detail about what this will mean for people who are bestowed with patrol rights: It means that every edit in "Recent changes" will be marked with yellow until someone clicks the edit, checks it out and clicks the link, letting other patrollers know that it does not contain anything which goes against our policies or rules. -- Duskey talk 21:58, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Detail

At the moment we have some rollbackers who haven't edited in many months. I suggest they're demoted and the active rollbackers are informed of their new added responsability. -- Duskey talk 01:30, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Excisting rollbackers

Events?
In response to the creation of the Fan event Munich 2010 and Fan event Paris 2010 pages, I don't think we should have event articles in this wiki. We are supposed to be a database containing only information about the Sims' games and whatever else comes out (movies, books, action figures (yeah right)). Having a one-line article about some kind of local event is not of any worth. What do you say? - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 16:20, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can do what we've done in the past; if the event is related to a particular expansion pack or game, create a sub-article of the game which it affects. Otherwise, I don't see a real use for fan event pages. -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 00:29, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll have to agree, there's not much use for them. -- Duskey talk 19:25, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Fan events deleted. -- Duskey talk 00:25, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Music
Do you think it might be a good idea to look at including on this Wiki music samples from the games? This idea originates with a conversation between me and Duskey about the music included on The Sims 3: Late Night page; if we can determine what we are allowed to "give out" on this site (in accordance with copyright laws), might it be worth including a music section or clip section where parts of songs can be listened to; for example, the neighborhood music from the original The Sims.

I by no means am an expert on copyright law, so I don't know what we legally can and cannot do. My rudimentary understanding of copyright is that privately-owned or licensed art, such as music used in The Sims series, can be used by others under specific and limited circumstances. I think it's worth looking at the potential for providing samples on some of our pages. Thoughts? -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 19:59, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * We can claim the Fair Use IF we fulfill the following criteria (as used by Wikipedia and it seems to work for them):


 * It illustrates an educational article that specifically discusses the song from which this sample was taken. The section of music used is discussed in the article in relation to the song's lyrics, musical and vocal style, and may contain part of the song's chorus.
 * It is a sample of no more than 30 seconds from a much longer recording, and could not be used as a substitute for the original commercial recording or to recreate the original recording.
 * It is of a lower quality than the original recording.
 * It is not replaceable with an uncopyrighted or freely copyrighted sample of comparable educational value.
 * It is believed that this sample will not affect the value of the original work or limit the copyright holder's rights or ability to distribute the original recording.
 * The audio sample is a copyrighted work. international (UK) copyright laws apply to this work. Should a free or public domain sample be located, it should be used in place of this audio sample


 * So a complete track list of short previews isn't gonna fly, but a few samples of some music from the games are technically allowed if the article says something like: "The buy music in The Sims is a jazzy kinda music" or some such. Note that there's already a lot of music from the older games in Youtube so it's not like EA's gonna go for us all of the sudden.


 * I suggest we keep the music at 30 secs maximum and reduced quality (eg. 16-bit, mono, >128 Kbps and maybe 32,000 Hz). Using 2-3 Simlish versions of the songs included in TS3 expansion packs would also be within the confines of Fair Use if we write something like "The music in this EP is inspired by ... and bla bla bla". -- Duskey talk 00:18, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. So, legally we're probably in the clear as long as we meet the stipulations above. I was thinking ~30 second clips at lower quality as well. The main questions become: 1) Do we want to do this? and 2) What music will be added to which articles, if we go forward with this? -- Patrick (LostInRiverview) (talk)(blog)(random page) 00:27, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Yes! 2) Radio stations & Songs in Simlish are good candidates for music. -- Duskey talk 19:26, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it would be a good idea. Besides, some wikians may find some songs that they love.  Just look at me, I found the song by Ladytron - Ghosts.  I love that song, and I am now listening to it.-- DarthCookie  07:46, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do note that the music would only be from The Sims game and even then it's under strict restrictions. It is against licensing rules to upload any other songs. -- Duskey talk 21:31, September 20, 2010 (UTC)