Talk:The Sims 4

Protect?
Just in case of high traffic, would this page be semi-protected? Just sort of anticipation.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  15:49, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * There haven't been any problems so far, so I'd say no. Not until it becomes an issue. Besides, there are enough people watching the page right now to make sure any vandalism that does take place can be quickly fixed. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 15:50, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * I honestly find pre-emptive page protection on new entries to be severely overused. I'm vehemently opposed to protecting the page until it becomes a last resort, and I mean a last resort. 15:53, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * I see your point. I thought I had one step ahead in the rumor page by locking it; maybe you could undo it if necessary. I do hope we have enough people to look after the page though. Sometimes anons are just slick.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  16:00, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it should be protected.  Cavia (  wheek  •   speak  ) 16:58, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why? --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 16:59, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * This? Maybe I'm just judging to early, but it could be protected so that only registered users can edit it.  Cavia (  wheek  •   speak  ) 17:01, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * One incident of vandalism along with 33 good edits, some by unregistered users, is not a good reason to semi-protect a page. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 17:02, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Compound onto that, the purpose of a wiki is so that anyone can edit it and stuff like that is almost always expected. Pre-emptively protecting a page based on one little thing breaks that purpose. 17:04, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * I see that I overreacted. I've been waiting for this the entire day, I'm guess I'm too tired. e.e  Cavia (  wheek  •   speak  ) 17:06, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

Oh Sims, I think you have finally broken me.

But Since I am a mindslave to you, I guess I'm buying it anyway v.v

~ Visitor

Theme Color
Okay, so...

Every game era has their own theme color. The theme color is used for Sim's biography template, game template, neighborhood template, and many others. The color themes are the following:
 * 1) The Sims: Red
 * 2) The Sims 2: Blue
 * 3) The Sims 3: Green
 * 4) The Urbz: Orange
 * 5) The Sims Medieval: Yellow
 * 6) The Sims Social: Light Blue

Does anyone have a suggestion for the The Sims 4 color theme? Since the logo involves both blue and green, we can make the color theme to have mixture of lighter blue and green. Otherwise, we can also go with the traditional one-color theme. Ideas?  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  15:53, May 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Why don't we give it light blue? By the time TS4 is out Sim Social will be long gone. --DentSig.png Talk 15:56, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Even though it will be shut down, it doesn't mean the game will be gone to oblivion. The article will be still there even if it's shut down, thus the color will still be used.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  16:14, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it would be nice if it was a mixed blue-green color, like a dark shade of turquoise. Either way if that doesn't suit well, then a dark green would probably suit the bill too. HanaGoth96 ( Neigh...? ) 16:18, May 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would agree with a mix between green and blue, as The Sims 2 is definetly blue and The Sims 3 is definetly green. I think it's more than suitable to have a mix between the used green and blue in the given logo from The Sims 4.  Tiezel     (talk)     curious?   16:40, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * We could darken the blue used on TS2 pages/templates, then use a light blue for TS4. Our themes in the past have been single-colored, so I don't know if it would be a good idea to vary from that too much. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 16:45, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * For fun I messed around with the template used on my wiki (see it here) just to see if mixing colours would work.. Now the bigger part is green, but this could also be blue, and then the header would be green. I tried to use the colours used in the logo, and luckily it has a nice dark/light balance in it.  Tiezel     (talk)     curious?   19:30, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking about green border and blue inner box, not a blend of blue and green actually. Thanks for giving a preview though.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  14:48, May 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * When I saw this, I assumed purple had been suggested. Why not? It's awesome! Purple forever! Me!-Bwahaha! 21:50, May 21, 2013 (UTC)Hurshbr


 * I think either we are going to have to reuse a color. I don't think purple is quite accurate. Maybe a gray and dark blue?  Tyscott12 (talk) 03:32, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * To be fair, red as the colour for The Sims 1 isn't that accurate either. I think purple would look great.Turbofrog (talk) 03:40, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point. Purple? Well I'm thinking about changing The Sims Social to purple and reserve sky blue for The Sims 4. How about that?  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  11:15, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ehhh... I think that Sky Blue suits The Sims Social. I'm kind of anal when it comes to that sort of stuff.
 * ~You can take my pride, but not my potatoesTurbofrog (talk)

(Resetting indent) DEFINITELY PURPLE it is one of my favorite colors. I don't think the sky blue would work out, maybe a light purple like lilac or something like a dark orchid. 21:46, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * You're kind of what, Turbofrog?


 * I'm still not sure about purple though. But that's just me.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  07:57, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think a light purple would go but a darker one might look nice, maybe the colour of the favourite, Spiceberry might look quite nice Chunkyheels (talk ) 08:00, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't mind a purple/spiceberry colour. I had this idea of a silvery kind of colour. The pagecover picture reminded me of a sleek, edgy silver. :D ~ Waikikamukow  ( Anyone wanna chat? ) 08:02, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * It's just an idea but we could make a Poll like we did when Island Paradise came out and put it on the homepage to decide and put certain colours up that have been suggested here and a few others. Chunkyheels (talk ) 08:14, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * We could as LiR for that. He's in charge for the poll.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  08:41, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify, when I used the word "anal", I meant sort of stuck up. I didn't mean anything about sexual acts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Turbofrog (talk • contribs) (UTC) - Please sign your comments with ~


 * I don't mind the idea of a poll, but I think people may just vote for their favourite colour and not necessarily is the best theme colour. That's the only criticism I have of the idea, though. And don't worry TurboFrog, I understood what you meant, at least. :p ~ Waikikamukow  ( Anyone wanna chat? ) 07:52, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well of course, Turbofrog. :p I was just kidding. It just sounded odd.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  09:38, July 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe someone should set up a poll for colours... I'll be happy to do that on here, if you'd like. Turbofrog (talk) 08:40, July 27, 2013 (UTC) You can take my pride, but not my potatoes.

This seems like an interesting point even the fact that I responded to this quite late. I think purple isn't gonna be a choice anymore because the current ItF theme already uses purple (we don't want to repeat choices obviously). This discussion seems worth of going into the forum, when the time comes... --Frostwalker Talk to me! 01:50, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Wishlist for TS4 from this community

 * Moved to Forum:Wishlist for The Sims 4
 * Please use article talk pages to discuss issues with the articles themselves. -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 05:55, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Graphics
I saw the new pictures. Somebody please tell me that those weren't taken on a computer. I really hope those aren't the graphics on a computer, just a Nintendo or something. Me!-Bwahaha! 21:53, May 21, 2013 (UTC)Hurshbr
 * It's just concept art. The actual game and the Sims in it will probably look vastly different than what they appear to be now. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 22:01, May 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Phew! That's good. [[File:Feeling Purple smiley.png]] Wow, that's a large face. Me!-Bwahaha! 22:08, May 21, 2013 (UTC)Hurshbr

Get rid of that fake box art please!!!

--84.26.70.101 (talk) 15:11, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Dude, thats not fake boxart. If you had a brain and did research, you would know that. Its from EA origins preorder page, obviously proving its real. Moron. 216.176.21.111 (talk) 15:06, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Watch your word, there's no need to be rude. Besides you can't specify which cover is fake, you can't prove if that would be the final version of the cover. Which is why it's captioned "placeholder cover" instead of "fake cover." We definitely won't showcase a fake, user-made cover.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  14:14, June 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would have been very upset if thats how the game would have looked. Im never a fan of new games anyway, i really hate having to start over, with things that will be new to me. The graphics would have been a turn off if they looked like that, not that i see myself getting sims 4 for some time.-Cheatcodechamp (talk) 07:57, August 15, 2013 (UTC)

The Sims 4 Extra Everything
Is this just Sweden or have this The Sims 4 Extra Everything showed up elsewhere?

The Sims 4 Extra Everything

Cool

Express How Much You Want Sims 4 Here
I don't, though. I'm still having fun with TS3.

GothLoliManda (talk) 02:28, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Inside the buildings?
I wish we could see in buildings like hospital or bistro in Sims 4 :)95.76.241.105 (talk) 14:09, July 7, 2013 (UTC)Nick

The video for the Second Sims 4 video has been privatized. It should be removed.

Page cover
While the page cover was changed unexplained, I was actually confused to let it be or revert it. Honestly, the current page cover is a little... too much, while the old one was plain and sparse, but simple and to-the-point.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  11:45, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

German Article
Does anyone who reads German want to check these and see if any new info is there (particularly about Create-A-Style)?

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2pph8n7&s=5

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lw4u8h&s=5

Tzigone (talk) 13:34, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Here you go:


 * Or here's if you don't want to bother clicking the link:


 * in general
 * The relationship between the sim and the player will become closer.
 * The sim's life will be told more naturally and emotionally.
 * the new look is supposed to enhance the magic effect - spin on the spot to change the clothes and pull every object out of a pocket.
 * You can see on a sim's face how they're doing and how decisions are impacting their life.


 * Emotions
 * Emotions are not only impacting a single character but the entire day's schedule of the sim.
 * They impact career, love life and hobbies as well.
 * For sad sims, everything is duller.
 * Sims can die of too much emotion, for example due to rage or shame.
 * There are possibilities of preventing this.
 * A depressed painter could paint a heartbreaking masterpiece while an angry jock might calm down on a treadmill.
 * Emotions are not random, but to be used with purpose to accomplish achievenments.


 * Multi tasking
 * It is possible to do several things at once - sims may have breakfast, eat, talk and watch TV or take a look at their cell phone at the same time.
 * Sims might walk backwards, for example to use the coffee machine behind them.
 * Sims react better with each other within group interactions.
 * Motions sequences are tightened to render fast forwarding unneeded.
 * There are two bars concerning friendship and relationships - a platonic one and an attractiveness one.


 * CAS
 * Body parts are easily modifiable with a mouse.
 * There are new weight groups - from extremely fat to extremely skinny.
 * Hairdos can be combined with every accessory.
 * There is an intelligent randomized system where you can exclude certain factors like clothes, weight or hairdos.


 * Build Mode
 * Four connected walls or pre-built shapes make up one block and can be shifted, its size changed.
 * Easy "pulling or shifting" of the block systems.
 * Decisions are changeable after the fact - if you, for example, forget the foundation, you can add it later without having to destory the furniture.


 * Furnishing
 * There will be a catalogue from which you can choose.
 * So you can pick a kitchen and place it with a simple click.
 * Changes in a room are causing the furniture to grow intelligently (no idea what this means... for any german-speaking peeps: "dass die Einrichtung intelligent mitwächst"...) or to decline - for example, stoves will be kept and superfluous furniture deleted.
 * Sadly, there won't be a "Create a style"-mode.


 *  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  14:37, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Console version
Can someone please provide a source about the console version of The Sims 4?? Showing the box art is not a valid proof.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  06:54, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * It was up on IGN.COM for a couple days, but taken down. It was likely just speculation because every sims game has been ported to consoles, so its very likely going to happen. Weather it will be next gen or current gen, is up to Maxis. The Real Shinichi Kudo (talk) 14:26, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

The Sims 4 Trailer!!!
Wacy500 (talk) 14:29, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

Website
For some reason, when I try to access The Sims 4 website, it redirects me to ea.com. Anyone else? Mate1234 (talk) 14:48, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

Release date
OMG Like, This game will release in four mouths. Nadiya2000 (talk) 12:43, September 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. "Early 2014" can really mean anytime before the middle of 2014, probably sometime January through April. Although, that doesn't mean the game won't be postponed; The Sims 2 and The Sims 3 were both postponed from their original release dates. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 13:28, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Sims 4 Base Game should combine elements of older sims expansion packs
since this is the fourth version of sims, I find it annoying, that they continue expansion packs with pets, weather, holidays, college etc. I'd think they should all be already on the sims 4 base game. Especially stuff as basic as pets and seasons, they to me dont even need an expanision, and feel more like something that the base game should already have.

One thing I think sims 4 expansion needs is another down town, or simply shopping malls, book stores, takeout places, gyms etc. instead of rabbit holes like sims 3.

Storyline
Hello everybody. I'm curious to know if The Sims 4 is a sequel to The Sims 2 or something similar. I mean if anyone knows anything about it it should be on the page, right? Even if its confirmed or not. Also, if anyone has anything to say about this then please reply back :) Joey.eyeball (talk) 05:37, October 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Only if we have any official sources from EA or the developers, otherwise we'll have to wait until the game is released then we can put everything we found on the game to this wiki. Check the Unreleased Games Policy. --Frostwalker Talk to me! 05:44, October 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ditto. It's not mentioned in the article because we know nothing about it. And it has to be confirmed so it could be written on the page, like Walker said. Besides, EA hasn't told anything further than CAS and build mode, so everything else is still unclear.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  06:10, October 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, maybe it would be a sequel for some families, but a prequel for others. Maybe Zelda Mae or Connor Frio or whoever has a kid who happens to be the same age as Alexander Goth s' kid despite it not making logical sense. 94.37.93.179 (talk) 18:24, January 23, 2014 (UTC)

Protect
For the past few months, this page has been edited by mostly anonymous users whose edits immediately need to be reverted anyway. I suggest this page to be semi-protected.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  14:19, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * Done! Dharden (talk) 18:02, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * Is indefinite protection necessary? I think it's best to protect the page until the game is released, then protect it when vandalism rates rise. That way, anonymous editors aren't permanently restricted to editing the page. K6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 18:22, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * I disagree with semi-protection at this time. While there has been some vandalism, I have also seen positive contributions by unregistered users to the page (including, in at least once instance, of an IP user undoing another IP user vandalism). --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 18:35, February 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * I take that back. I wasn't totally aware of how much reverting of IP edits had been done until I checked the history. I support page protection. As for expiration, I say we leave it at indefinite for now, and we can change it post-release once the hubbub dies down. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 18:38, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Autumn and Torgo?
In the banner there is a girl with fiery red hair kissing a blond-ish looking dude wearing an hat. I know it's propably not possible, but what if these two are Autumn Cusack and Torgo Pendragon? It's kinda unlikely, but Kaylinn and Goopy also went from NPC's to fullfledged playable characters. (OK, i know that usually the sims seen in the banner are not in the actual game, Ok, there is TS3 Michael Bachelor, and Don Lothario, but that's it. But who knows?)

Kaylabaraonda (talk) 16:48, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nah, I don't think so. Kaylynn gave Daniel Pleasant a storyline, and Goopy is... well, everyone knows Goopy. It would make more sense if EA put Bella Goth on the banner, considering they actually remember who she is.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  15:48, March 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok, but what about the other people in the image,
 * There are people who might look like they're Sam Sekemoto, Sandi French, Darlene Bunch, Opal Suarley, ecc.. so, i guess they could be them? Even though i know everyone is just a promotional character that does not appear in the game, and that the only Sunset Valley\Pleasantwiew families with any propabilities to appear in the game are: Altos, Landgraabs, Crumplebottoms, Goths, Bachelors, Langeraks, GilsCarbos, Calientes\Lotharios, Newbie\Broke, and of course, there would also be a "Roomies Household" with sims possibly unrelated to TS2\TS3 characters. Sims_4_whoswoh.png


 * But it would be cute to have an older Cycl0n3 Sw0rd and Blair Wainwright being married to each other, living in some tech sci-fi house with a Plumbot and other advanced tech - possibly even a clone of sorts, why not? (Roughly 93 and 96-years-old, respectively. So they could still be alive even without the use of an Age Freeze\Youth Potion or other shenanigans.) and one\two of their clones\children (depending if they used Youth Potion or not. Biological kids of these two, if not helped by potions, would have to be at least in their late fourties) is living away from home, with their friends: the kid\grandkid of Xander and Tamara, Emma's (and Ayesha's?) adopted someone and possibly named them after food, Stiles found Bessie's reincarnation being Iqbal's kid with either Madison or Judy and took them in, plus Cycl and Blair s' twins or grandtwins, and maybe maybe Hank and Pauline s' kid or even a completely original character also lives here...  (Boyd and Susan's second child became the patriarch of a nuclear-type family)  Kaiko Mikkusu (talk) 22:07, April 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * Why would EA bother remembering these forgettable Sims with no significant roles, when they can easily create new Sims not based on anyone? Let's get real. It makes no sense that EA wants to bother doing this. They know the possibility of creating Sims is endless, so they easily create new ones instead of bothering researching existing Sims' lives just to do this. They weren't even aware that Oberon Summerdream was supposed to be called Oberon Gossamer in Moonlight Falls, so why would they remember Autumn Cusack?  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  09:18, April 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * The Summerdreams in Moonlight Falls were supposed to be married. Then something happened   to  make them infertile and divorce them, so they went to search for other elf sims from non-elf families, while also losing their fairy status, and finally moved to Pleasantwiew. And now that Bottom is big enough, Oberon and Titania can marry again at the start of the TS2 storyline. Yea, it's a bit weird... And for all we know, they will just make something where you can import your TS3 Sunset Valley savefile, even if the engine is completely different, they could find a way to reconstruct things such as family trees or NPC faces. But i guess even if you could import savefiles, you would just import what, the homes, and the characters' names, personalities, bios, skills, fat\muscle sliders, and relationships (both family ones and like, romance or friendship) but they would not be dressed the same, not have the same hairstyles, everyone would either be face 1 or just randomized faces, depending on how skintones work, your black sim could become white and viceversa, and sims with customized\unique haircolors (ones in SV i can name off the top: Boyd Vainwright (off-white), Madison VanWatson (strawberry blonde), Monika Morris (dark crimson), Autumn Cusack (ketchup red), Abraham Finkel (blonde with red-orange highlights), Cornelia Goth (purple-violet), Judy Bunch (blonde but dyed brownish), Zelda Mae (black but dyed blonde), Vj Alvi (black with blue highlights) to not mention anyone else you could have dyed their hair something like green or pink or whatever. They could change to the nearest preset, but they could easily not. You do not want a Boyd Vainwright with dark brown hair that is visibly darker than Cornelia Goth's ginger hair! (wait, why do Boyd and Vj's pages not link? I can understand VJ because i called him Vj and links are not actually case sensitive, but i'm pretty sure Blair's dad is named Boyd Vainwright... Lemme see, MoRtImEr GoTh yup, case sensitive. Was Vainwright actually VainWright like Gilscarbo is GilsCarbo, and i never noticed it before???) Kaiko Mikkusu (talk) 14:29, April 20, 2014 (UTC)



MEOW!
I wish I had it!216.134.166.19 (talk) 05:57, April 6, 2014 (UTC)MEOW GAL!!

the sims 4 for Xbox one & PlayStation 4
is ea games going to release the sims 4 for PlayStation 4 & Xbox one? Commentadder (talk) 00:02, April 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know. I'd say that it's likely to happen somewhere down the line but we can only speculate at this stage. 00:09, April 30, 2014 (UTC)

I hope they have better clothes choices for all ages, not just teens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KK1290 (talk • contribs) (UTC) - Please sign your comments with ~

Grim Reaper
Heard a rumor that the grim reaper will be an available job for playable sims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.214.90.58 (talk • contribs) (UTC) - Please sign your comments with ~
 * Great. And I guess you bought that story.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  14:25, May 16, 2014 (UTC)


 * Maybe when a sim witnesses another sim dying, and chats up the Grim reaper, once they're friends, you can ask the Grim Reaper to turn you into another Grim Reaper.


 * I guess there could be these lifestates in the base game: regular Sim, ghost, Grim reaper, tragic clown, and alien. (vampires, zombies, witches, werewolfs, plantsims, fairies, genies, mermaids, elves, robots, Social Bunnies, yetis, dragons(a'la Jake Long), imaginary friends turned humans, and whatever else they can come up with, might be new life states.) Kaiko Mikkusu (talk) 15:41, May 17, 2014 (UTC)


 * Your ideas are pointless. The Grim Reaper doesn't share his/her lifestate, and he is an NPC so he is like a person who wants to collect souls once a Sim dies. Aliens are non-occults, Social Bunnies, along with BigFoot are NPCs also.


 * I don't know if Imaginary Friends will be returning in the BG or EPs, or Elves (Elves, IMO, are considered fairies since they have pointy ears), and how many times do we have to tell you that Tragic Clowns and Zombies are temporary states. The lifestates (except the ones that I mentionaed are wrong), I don't know if they are in BG or EPs.


 * Also, the interactions of the grim reaper is the same as in TS3 or TS1 or both. And you actually bought that story from a contributor and your theory that doesn't really happening in the series. Maybe we should wait for the TS4 to come.  ThePeculiarMe  |  (talk to me)  01:40, May 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * Umm elves are not the same things as fairies. Okay, the Summerdream Family are elven fairies, but there were also non-fairy elves. There's the Sims Medieval where there's a kingdom-ish of elves, then MySims' Leaf and Petal. But both Sims Medieval and MySims seem to be prequel-y spinoffs. Plus, look at the Dragon Valley-ites, they're elves, right? Except for the Burb family who time-travelled into the past when they took some ship or something? When is Dragon Valley even set in, if it's set in the Medieval times, would that mean the Burb family actually time-travelled not unlike Don Lothario and maybe maybe the Caliente sisters? Kaiko Mikkusu (talk) 15:52, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

Question
Can you create toddlers in this game —Preceding unsigned comment added by Teresa2011 (talk • contribs) 02:23 7 June 2014 (UTC) - Please sign your comments with ~
 * Yes. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 02:44, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

Organization
I'm trying to get this article more organized and cleaned up, since it's bound to get even more traffic as we near its release date. To that end, I'd like to come up with some idea of how information should be organized. This is the general idea I have so far:


 * ''- Lead paragraph, infobox, table of contents
 * - Official description
 * - Game features
 * - Subsections for significant features (new build mode, new create a Sim, new Gallery feature, etc)
 * - Neighborhood(s), including returning families
 * - Development information
 * - Subsections for announcement information, official events sections, etc
 * - Additional information (this section should be as short as possible)
 * - Image and video galleries
 * - External links and notes
 * - References and navigation

 LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 04:04, June 11, 2014 (UTC)