Forum:Blonde or Blond

Normally, the term blonde is for both male and female Sims. Now a discussion has been carried to whether blond should be used for males and blonde for females, as the words are derived from French and that's how the French language uses them. Joey.eyeball (talk) 23:06, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
It looks like British English prefers blonde for females and blond for males, whereas US English prefers blond for both genders. The Manual of style says that "it is generally acceptable to leave an article alone where the style is consistent throughout the article." I think this isn't major enough to have to be decided on a wiki-wide level, especially considering the differing styles between various versions of English - none of which are correct or incorrect. It would be relatively painless to make the Sim and related templates accept both spellings of the word.

The only case where I think we might want to make a decision is in the naming of the category - be it Category:Blond Sims or Category:Blonde Sims. In this case, my vote would be for 'blond' since it's a gender-neutral term, versus blonde which is intended specifically for females. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 00:18, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * So you are proposing that we change it to blond because it can be used appropriately for both genders? Joey.eyeball (talk) 01:42, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, I'm proposing that we don't change anything except the category name. But, that's just my suggestion. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 01:44, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Do we change it on the template for each gender? Joey.eyeball (talk) 01:47, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you mean. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 03:56, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I mean on Sim articles and on this template. Joey.eyeball (talk) 03:58, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * In terms of a possible category name change, I'd be fine with using blond or blonde. If need be, the word usage of the hair color in the games can be taken into account. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 05:33, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm confused. I've always thought "blonde" is the gender-neutral term all along. Currently, we're using Category:Blondes for Sims with blonde hair. I've never argued with it because I thought "blonde" is the gender-neutral term. If we are to agree to use "blond" as the gender-neutral term, we could as well change the category for those Sims into Category:Blonds.


 * I'm not quite sure what you asked about the template either, Joey. If you're looking for the categorization template for blonde Sims, Template:GetAppearanceCat is the correct template. Both terms "blond" and "blonde" categorize Sims to Category:Blondes. We can make a minor tweak to the template to change the categories, while agreeing both usages of terms are acceptable.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  05:51, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The point I was making was that we don't need to go around to all the articles and edit them to make them match one spelling choice or the other, since they're both technically correct. As I said, the only thing I'd change would be the category. As Nikel said, that would be as easy as tweaking the template. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 05:53, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't like that template. But I'm still confused about what are we doing. Joey.eyeball (talk) 05:56, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Right now, we're discussing what we're doing. Then we'll do it. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 06:01, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Can you tell me what is happening then? Joey.eyeball (talk) 06:04, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, at the moment we're waiting for more people to weigh in on the subject. After that point we'll figure out what the community has decided, then implement it. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 06:20, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Since I think I "started" this discussion, I guess I'd better have my say. I'd agree to changing the category name from Blondes to Blonds as that is gender neutral. But, I'm not sure about what to do for the descriptions for Sim pages. Personally, I would prefer to use blonde for females and blond for males, but I believe the wiki uses (or, at least, prefers) US English for consistency between articles, and the US use blond for males and females. ~ Waikikamukow  ( Anyone wanna chat? ) 06:26, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I actually liked things the way they were. Although, I am the type of person who despises change. Joey.eyeball (talk) 06:29, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * The MoS does also state that it's not important that all articles follow the same exact spelling style, only that it be consistent within the article itself.
 * As an aside, I'd suggest we also change the category to Category:Blond-haired Sims (or Category:Blonde-haired Sims). Apparently using the term 'blondes' can be offensive to some people, since referring to someone as a blonde is considered by some to be a negative reference to the "dumb blonde" stereotype. Not to mention, renaming it would bring it into line with our other category names, like Category:Brown-haired Sims, Category:Black-haired Sims, etc. Just some more food for thought. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 06:35, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

I don't mind renaming the category name as it's not really difficult for that. Just sayin' here, the category name for Sims with red hair is called Category:Redheads. Perhaps that needs to be changed too.

I'm not sure which part you're confused about, Joey. Perhaps there's a misinterpretation of some sort in this discussion you found? Maybe you could clarify what you're confused about, please. Like, what did you not like from the template, actually? That template is only used for automatic categorization. Besides, I don't really see if you actually brought up any problems at the top of the discussion page...

What are the choices we have for the outcome of this discussion?  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  14:15, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * We enforce the use of term "blond" for male and "blonde" for female, and "blond" for gender-neutral context.
 * We enforce the use of term "blond" for both genders.
 * We're inclined to use both terms "blond" and "blonde" depending on the gender, but do not need to enforce them. "Blond" is used for gender-neutral context.
 * No enforcement; depends on the article. If the article consistently uses both terms, we use both terms in that article. If the article only use "blond", we only use "blond".
 * I am in favor of making the category names consistent; therefore Category:Blond(e)-haired Sims and Category:Red-haired Sims. As for spelling, people are going to use both, and usage will likely be inconsistent. It may be best to "cooperate with the inevitable" and not enforce either one beyond maintaining consistent usage within articles. Dharden (talk) 20:45, December 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * I say we use "blond" for males and "blonde" for females, and "blond" for both genders term. I think that sounds good. Joey.eyeball (talk) 05:16, December 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm with Joey, but I don't want to enforce the usage. I think it's better to use what seems right in the context.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  07:26, December 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I just realised something. Blonde is used for chemistry in both genders, so I think we should follow that. Joey.eyeball (talk) 02:09, December 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I support Nikel's third point above - Using the correct term based on gender, but not going out of our way to make the changes on each article; this is what TSW:MOS tells us to do anyways. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 15:23, December 29, 2013 (UTC)

Nikel's third point seems to be the most straightforward. Honestly, I don't think it matters too much either way. 04:01, December 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * I would agree to using "blonde" for females and "blond" for males and gender-neutral aspects, but I also wouldn't enforce it harshly. I don't think this issue is bad enough that we have to regulate and comply with the separate spellings harshly. ~ Waikikamukow  ( Anyone wanna chat? )  00:34, January 1, 2014 (UTC)

Conclusion
It seems that the general opinion here is towards using "blonde" or "blond" depending on context, while not heavily enforcing this guideline. To that end, editors should not find it necessary to edit articles about blond(e)-haired Sims simply to bring them in line with this guideline. Since this is a style guideline, I'll make a note of this decision on the MoS and a link to this discussion for posterity. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 02:26, January 7, 2014 (UTC)