Talk:Sunset Valley

Questions !, Questions !!, And More Questions !!!
Question 1: Landgrab

Counted The Fact The "Landgrab" Family Appear Within This New Saga Of Sims 3 Characters, Would This Mean That The Landgrab Family Will Do What They Did In "The Sims: Bustin' Out" ? (i.e Destroying Rare Items, For Quests).

Question 2: Missing Lots

Ok, Gunter Goth And His Family are The Founders Of Sunset Vally. And Look At all The New Places In The Game, Theres A New Graveyard, And A Beach, And A Museum. But If Sunset Vally Is PleasentView A Few Years Back, The Why Don't These Places Appear In The Sims 2 PleaseentView? (NOTE: This Game Must Be Dated Back Very Far, Because The Bridge In PleasentView Doesn't Appear In Susent Vally)

A: Remember we have to figure out where plesant view/ oldtown was which part of sunset valley. techinically a neighborhod is one out many many neighbgiorhoods that make -up a town. maybe maxis was just showing us one neighborhood, or just a samll part of the won. Rember the town is going to be huge esepcailly since,now its completely seamless!

Question 3: Premade Sims On Box Art

I Have Noticed All The Premade Sims On The Box Art Seem To All look-A-Like, Is This Going To Effect Every C.A.S? (i.e When I Create Something, will it match an NPC?)

Question 4: The New Families

If All Of These New Families Appear In The New Game, Then How Come Mortimer Goth Cannot Remember?, There Is A Brand New Family The Game Called "Altro's", And There His Parents Arch Enemy, How Come Mortimer Has No Memory Of Them In The Sims 2? (My Guess: They Might Have Been A Spoiler If They Where Remembered But Not Featured.)

Question 5: Mysterious Fire

There Was A Mysterious Fire In The Sims 2, Within Mortimers Memory's Ad Least, Acording To The Memory, And The Articles. Mortimer Burned Down His own House By Cooking, If So, Did That Fire Spread?, Because Most Of The Buildings In The Sims 3 Don't appear In The Sims 2, Could this Be The Cause? ...

A: lets not forget all the other ppl opf pleasantview who should rember a large fire!

Xiaou 18:24, 12 March 2009 (UTC)Xiaou


 * Answer Well Maxis didn't know the future, smartie!

Wow!, you had some good observations, and in which frankly I wanted to know the answers. So I posted them on Sunny's page: http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Ask_Sunny_The_Sims_3_Questions#General_Questions where they would get a better chanced of getting answered. I made some minor phrasing grammaticaladjsutedments to the questions. Sunny won't answer tehes for a while,and they are posted anoymously, so i figured there were no worries, is that ok? emaning you could always fel free to cahnge them or remove them however you like. Remember I could always remove the questions if you don't want them posted there!

^_^FREEDOM 55
 * ps: In regards to questions 4: the goths and the Altos are enemies? I thought those where the Landgraabs who had a problem with the Altos, now the goths too? O_o now I'm so confused. but thats really intresting where did you get the info?

oh! isee. kk thankxFREEDOM 55

Gunther isn't a politician. He is a buisnessman.

Question 6: Will The Matlapin Family Come Back Coz Dreamer Is I Wanna Get Darren And Darleen Married :)

The Hipp Family?
I watched the sims 3 preview where the Hipp Family were created but i don't think they'll be in the actual game. Were'nt they just made to show free will? I didn't want to delete them just in case but does anyone else think the same as me?? And if so why are they on the Sunset Valley Page?? They could have there own page (Yeah!), but shouldn't be included on the sunset Valley page if there not a real family. Matta jr 10:50, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * p.s I don't think we should get rid of the Hipp houshold page (completly the oposite). I think we should just separate it from Sunset Valley as I think there not in the base game! (I think its a good idea to keep them to show the possibilities of CAS and free will in the sims 3!) :D

the sims 3 site confirmed Liam as being in the town.now assuming the rest of the household will also be in the sims 3 final game. so i think we best leave it. ^_^FREEDOM 55

New Info as confirmed from the sims 3 site....
15:43, 11 April 2009 (UTC)The sims 3 site has posted new detailed information about characters we seen in videoas, the sims 3 promo, screenshots,and in the sims 3 artpics. which means we are able to get iamges of the characters from our sims 3 gallery or snooty sims. when on the hompage of the sims 3, there is now a flash preview of susnet valley characters or landmarks, discriptions right from the site are as follows:

"Zack is a local football star who likes the ladies. They like him too, until they see his pigpen of a home." so we can derive that he possibly has traits of be a slob, ath letic and being flirty.

"Marcela is the cutest master theif in /susnetValley, she could pick a lock before she could pick her nose."

"Travis Chaseis a real cowboy inside and out, from his pointy boots to his western-styled ranch house.His artpic and traits were first advertised in march 2008 with the old sims 3 site. unfornately at the time I didn't know the importance of retriving them.

"Brianna,over emotonal braniac.She is such a workoholic that her brain and her feelings work OT" OT=overtime. we can confirm her traits are workoholic,over emotional, and genuis. again, on the old sims 3 site, is told us the other two traits, however i fail to get them.

"Officer Roscoe would be Susnet Valley's finest cop if he wasn't a comlusive kleptomaniac." we can confirm her has the kleptomaniac trait.

LANDMARKS/PLACES:

"The Fountain is a popular Sunset Valley landmark.Perfect place to mett old freinds or make new ones."

" Dine al fresco(or au natural if you like)at the Bistro,a perfect spot to meet old freinds for a quick bite."

" Something is always happening in the town center.If there's not, just start something yourself."

All this information was retreived from:http://thesims3.ea.com/view/pages/home.jsp?languageCode=en

On a sims 3 article on the sims3.com, located here:http://thesims3.ea.com/view/pages/blog.jsp?author=Richard%20Evans#ArtificialIntelligenceinTheSims3, an senior Al engineer confirmed more citizens of sunsetvalley,they are as follows:

"The pick-up line which worked so well on Pauline may not work quite so well on Bessie Clavell, who has no sense of humor whatsoever!

" Madison Watson is sweet, but perhaps a little immature."

"The Frio brothers may have a nice house, but they have personality issues which make them less than ideal as boyfriend material.


 * So I propose we make all this new info about seperate cahracters into pages,add to exsiting pages and add it to susnetvalley's page.

---sincerly ^_^FREEDOM 55

Seamless Neighberhood
I don't understand how the neighberhood is totally seamless !? :S But I thought that maybe its not totally seamless but VERY big. So your sims can travel really far, but there needs obviously keep going down so if they dont turn back and go home then they will wet themselves or fall asleep on the floor and eventually die becasue there needs are really badly down! Does anyone else have any theorys about the seamless neighberhood? :) Matta jr 10:34, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

- A Seamless neighborhood just means that the whole town, Sunset Valley, will age and be out in town doing their own thing, even though you are not playing that perticular sim. Yes, you will still need to take of your sims needs, though.

Adding categories
We need to start to talk about the futer of this page. What categoies are we going to add once sims3 comes out? What will be in them? --Limemabean 00:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I think wee should make a categorie about locations, what they look like, what a sim can do there (exp. At (Buuilding name) a sim can get a job

A: I agree on the locations catogory Cheesepie1011

Families
I just want to say that the pintoo family, the sanchez family or the Zavarez family DOESN'T exist. But you don't want to understand it... so, we will see June 2th.

List of ALL families in the Sims 3: http://www.snootysims.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=574916#p574916

Oh! and Don Lothario (and the Lothario Family) is NOT in Sunset Valley, but in Riverview! See the Interview of MJ Chun: http://www.sims3nieuws.blogspot.com/2009/05/sims-3-nieuws-exclusive-interview-with.html

Could you give us a bit more information about the downloadable town: Riverview?

''Riverview is a complete new neighborhood with 60+ complete new NPC's. There is a beautiful river in the small town and here are beautiful pastures. There will also be a few "old" faces from The Sims 2 in Riverview. Like Don Lothario.''

--Aster09 15:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I put info about riverview but someone deleted it --Limemabean 23:28, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

True Sims 3 Family's
Have you noticed that now we have drawn a line between true family's from the Sims 3 and lies. Sure the lines a little wobbly in places but its a solid line with no breaks (if you get my metaphorical idea ;) ). There are no major flaws in the sunset valley plot, e.g. before Daniel Pleasant was a baby when he shouldn't have been born, The oldie family were adults when they were meant to be children etc. We have mostly discovered the true Sunset Valley. Well done everyone! We've done this in one day!

But I do have one negative to moan about. The wiki seems to be split about who is in Sunset Valley. Some say all the classic familys (like plesant and burb) will be in it and some think that most won't. Can we not argue about it. At the end of the day its not that big a deal; its only a game, be it a totally amazing game, but still just a game: not real! Everyone can have their own opinion and when the sims 3 comes out we will see whos right. But its not a competition. The gam is meant to be fun and not meant to start a wikiw war.

Thanks :D Matta jr 22:04, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Matta jr is right. We need to stop argueing about it and just injoy our selfs. There shouldn't be much to argue about because none off use have proof, so you can't say some one is wrong and your right! Besides there is just 4 days till sims 3 and then we'll know. Sit back and just chat if you disagree. --Limemabean 01:21, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I too agree. We have a lot of editing to do. If the ancestors of Pleasantview are not in the game, I will still create them, though!--Bella Goth 01:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)Bella Goth


 * Yeah this is more like it :D Matta jr 09:08, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * People who have the Prima Strategy Guide also report that only the families now on the page are in Sunset Valley. -- Noneofyourbusiness 21:08, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I totally agree. I just do not think it's right that some people are going in all-guns-blazing and deleting a load of information about these Sims which are not in Sims 3; simply because they do not appear in the leaked version. No-one can know until it comes out, then people can delete all the irrelevant information! TomDuke 21:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The information on the Burbs, Pleasants, etc. also came with inaccurate details about families that are in the game, such as the Langeraks, whose composition is totally different. Furthermore, where is the information that does not jive with the leaked version supposed to have come from? The obvious conclusion is that someone made it up. -- Noneofyourbusiness 23:13, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've already had this conversation with someone else, I'm not up for repeating myself. NO-BODY knows the difference between the leaked version and the final one. I was merely telling someone to stop deleting information until we know that it is false! TomDuke 23:25, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok im gunna nip this in the bud. Please don't let this turn into an argument. We're all friends here. If your just having a convo them thats fine but when people start to us capital letters I get anxious. We haven't got long to go till we know for sure so just leave the Sunset Valley page as it is and don't argue. Sorry if this seems a bit premature or harsh I just think its silly to argue about something that none of us know about for sure. :)Matta jr 23:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Nobody is arguing. I put 'no-body' in capitals to add empathis, not to make anybody anxious. I'm keeping as open-minded as I can; it wouldn't suprise me if the leaked version is pretty accurate. I just don't like how people find it necessary to delete a load of information when they are not certain. When they are; they have every right to. TomDuke 23:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry for accusing you. But I just don't like arguments on the wiki. I totally agree with you about the deletion thing but its best to leave Sunset Valley as it is until the game comes out. I hope your not offended at my swift actions and accusation. I didn't meant to offend you :)Matta jr 23:47, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Nahh, I'm not offended at all :). I just think nobody can be certain, until next week anway! TomDuke 23:51, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Glad to have sorted that out :DMatta jr 23:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Ya guys take a chill pill. We shouldn't be argueing we should be celabrateing each day we get closer to Sims 3!!!--Limemabean 01:50, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

New Neighbourhoods
Is it possible to create new neighbourhoods in the Sims 3, with their own street plans and landscapes? It would be quite annoying if you had to conform to set paths.


 * Does anyone know the answer? Sorry, but I'd like to know before I get the game (I'm British), so I can prepare!


 * No, but some fans claim that they have heard rumors of a neighborhood creator being available weeks after the initial release. But no info on that yet. Please, remember to sign your post so that we everyone can know who they are talking to. To do that, just enter ~ after your post. - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 19:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * yes, I know, but I changed my signature for the Animal Crossing wiki, and so on other wikis, it looks a mess. It's a shame you can't create new neighbourhoods- perhaps i'll just have to bulldoze everything! 19:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Why? It is great as it is in the beginning! If you bulldoze the communily lots or the job lots (if that is possible) who knows how will you rebuild them... ooh, and just do this: USERNAME if your sig is messed up. That's why I don't include a lot of links on my basic singature. Instead, I have a signature on a personal template in every wiki I am in :) - JEA13  [ iTalk  ] 19:27, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

There is a tool out (only compatible with World Adventures) allowing you to create neighbourhoods.

Missing some families
As the presonal owener the sims the day it came out!XD I found there alot more new families than listed here! especailly one living near claire Ursine. I will list them on this post soon! but i'm sure several sims 3 players ahve found this out already. if you fully exloreer the town map(households) with a free camera... FREEDOM 55

The Sims 2 Sunset Valley Families
There are TONS of families in Sunset Valley. Where did they all go in the Sims and Sims 2? --Amigop 00:51, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

I guess there was some great fire that spawned over the town, killing many. Bella was the chosen one of the magic world, so she used the Hole in the Ground to save herself, Mortimer (teens), Michael (YA and in university), Gunther, Cornelia (elders), Agnes (adult but almost elder\"Young Elder"), Holly Alto (YA, graduated from university, got a name change to "Ginia Kat"), and Kaylinn (teen, almost YA. Actually gave herself a temporary Age Freeze upon turning into an YA because she wanted to stay in the magic world) and we know that the Malcolm II in the TS2 Landgraab family tree is actually Nancy's first cousin, not grandson. TS3 Malcolm is the second cousin once removed of TS2 Malcolm. So there were only, like, 8 survivors. (Kaylinn used magic contact lenses to turn her eyes green, and she already had recessive genes for blonde hair. So does Parker.) Bella, Michael (who was changed almost completely by the magicworld experience and returned to university), and Mortimer returned to "Neighboorhood 1\Old Town" while Cassandra had her toddler birthday. They were soon joined by Agnes, Gunther\Cornelia, and Ginia (Holly). The ghosts in the Goth graveyard are not actually the Bachelors. Well, "Grandpa" = Milton, "Grandma" = Enriqueta, "Uncle" = Simis, "Auntie" = Jocasta, but the other ones really are buried friends from the Valley (like it says in the thingie where you install TS2) Looking at their appearances, i'm guessing "Cousin" = Boyd Wainwright, "Vegas" = Gobias Koffi, "Bratty" = Sandi French, and "Boy" = Sam Sekemoto. They saved up most of the intact graves so they could later get opportunities to revive the sims of SV, the other graves either lost in the fire or somewhere in the basement and\or science facility. They also used projects and stuff to bring new sims to town, so the world would live and thrive. Between TS2 and TS4, Bella Goth was found, the experiments of the aliens turning her younger and more long-lived... (maybe vampire?) and she is the only one left from the Sunset Valley days (except for Kaylinn maybe). Not like cloning technologies have been discovered, so Alexander and (possibly either Lucy or Cecilia... or a brand-new spouse) have discovered a way to bring back the people from long ago. Only some of the people in TS4 Riviera will be the descendants of sims in TS2 and maybe its expansion packs, a few others will be new families, but the rest would be families of clones\reincarnations\whatever of the guys and gals from TS3. About Ginia's elder-ish appearance, if Holly\Ginia was 16 in TS3, she would be 41 in TS1. Ginia does not look that old, so i guess she's like in her early Adult days and her hair just greyed early. Tara is 27 in TS2, she would have to have had her at 39. Tara's dad is either one of the Magic Town natives\a pregnancy potion (explaining why her face does not age when she becomes an Elder.) thus Tara would still be in Magic world being raised by Kaylinn. Or... who else do we know with red hair that's almost the same age as Holly aka Ginia? Yes, what i'm saying is that Michael would be Tara's father. Michael and Holly\Ginia had a fling. (When you're a college student and the only human females nearby are either your sister, too old, or married except for one, you're bound to do the WooHooey thing.) The reason Tara is not living in SimLane or Old Town, maybe Kaylinn thought she preferred to stay with her in Magic Town or something. Maybe living her toddlerhood in Magic Town caused her features to not age. The reason Tara is not linked to Michael is because she's in the Houses Bin instead of the Pleasantwiew Sim Bin. Plus, back then most families went by a descriptive word as their surname, with OFB there started being more "realistic" surnames, until Apartment Life where the only descriptive surnames were like, Newson and Cordial somewhat. Maybe also the Contenders but even that's a stretch. If say, the Keaton family were in Sims 1, they would propably have been named Marty and Justine Pregnants. If there was a family of a newly-orphaned teen Buster living with his girlfriend Bessie and their "tutor\guardian" Basil Flores, they would propably have been Buster, Bessie & Basil Orphaned or something similiar. Kaiko Mikkusu (talk) 20:48, May 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'm gonna tell in a base game and excluding the EPs:


 * First of all, These theories of yours doesn't have sense in the Sims storyline. It sounds like you've created a fanon. Second, there aren't any magic in the base game and if there are, Bella isn't the only one that has magic. Third, There are no records or description that the whole neighborhood has experienced some wildfire, if there are some, they would have tinker a television or electrical equipment with a low skill at the same time. Fourth, your age explanation about the Goths and every Sims are irrelevant in TS3 to TS1 to TS2. And your so called "Young elder" is the same as "Adult". For making this clear and simple, Since TS3 is a successor of the 2 games and the predecessor of the storyline, those new families are adding up and making the game relevant to the storyline. The Sims that are the main characters are the Bachelors (I think), Landgraabs, Altos, and the Goths. The other families are just supporting in the plot. Making the game continue the storyline and somehow confusing. If you, somehow, don't understand for what I am saying, in short, read here what really happened to them.


 * Also, I'm really really tired of your theories about the game and the townie spectulation or what-so-ever. People usually answer in a simple way and not explaining that you keep the reader wasting their time. And did you really keeping us confused about the families. Normally, people would discovered themselves if they really want to know the plot of the series.  ThePeculiarMe  |  (talk to me)  01:46, May 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ditto to most, if not all, of ThePeculiarMe's reasoning.


 * You know what happened to Sims in Lucky Palms between the timeline in my game? I deleted them all with MasterController. Conclusion: you shouldn't ask what's not happening in the game because no one knows and anything can happen. Everything else is just theories.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  13:42, May 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * Actually i just decided that Kaylinn if anything will just be killed when i get at her roundlet, and then i will resurrect her when Alexander is already born. About the TS3 introduced families (I.E. like the Wolffs or the Bunches) i think they will stay. I will propably move out some of the Face 1 townies to make space for people like the Pleasants. Depending on what happens to Holly\Ginia (i'm currently at the Hart roundlet) Tara would either be Michael's kid, or adopted. Or i make a CAS sim just to be Tara's father. Or a clone voucher, really. I guess i would make an Adult Female and morph her face to look like canonical TS2 Tara, and then use the features on an YA male. "Ginia" is actually living with Jocasta, Simis, and Michael. Bella lives in the Goth Manor. I'm having all boyfriends\girlfriends of sims move into the household so they're married when i go in their roundlets again. I had 3 new pairings: Iqbal Alvi\Anne Alvi, Christopher Steelemoto\Yumi Steelemoto (Chris has a portmanteau surname fetish), and now Bebe Hart\Tori Kimura. (Since Yumi is much older than Chris, if she dies, i guess Chris will rebound on the other actractive female he knows: Nancy Landgraab. Or maybe Victoria Andrews, i do not remember correctly if the two have met yet. If Chris marries Nancy, i will have Nancy stay a Landgraab, but Chris will be Christopher Steelgraab.) 94.37.79.175 (talk) 23:46, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

Sunset Valley isn't Pleasentview
Sunset Valley is NOT Pleasentview, I have evidence. The description for the Lucky Door states that someone from PLEASENTVIEW won their local bingo tournament after installing a lucky door. It mentions Gunther Goth as the founder of Pleasentview. I doubt Sunset Valley could grow that quickly whilst Gunther was a young adult, and I doubt Gunther founded Sunset Valley when he was a kid. Also, the way it describes the Altos as 'New' Suggests Sunset Valley has been there for a while.

Whilst the road maps look similar (at least for the first one). However, the description says before Pleasantview, there was Sunset Valley. Doesn't neccesarily mean they are the same thing. It could be reffering to the Goth's latest founding, bearing in mind they founded both. Also, back to previous arguments, In the description for the Lucky Door, it states Mr McMann from Pleasentview won the local bingo tournament after installing a Lucky Door. How come Mr McMann lived in a town that didn't exist. Also, Gunther is a adult, It is unlikely that he founded Sunset Valley and brought it up to that level of sive during his Young Adulthood and what has happened of his Adulthood. Also, a new argument, Sunset Valley has 25 households, Neighbourhood 1 and Old Town (combined) and Pleasentview have 6 households each. Where did they all go?

I agree with the anonymous person (by the way, please place four tildes after your posts, like this ~ ~ ~ ~ without spaces). I think it's possible that Pleasantview is a descendant of Sunset Valley, like perhaps some citizens of Sunset Valley got sick of that town and relocated somewhere and created Neighborhood 1/Old Town, which became Pleasantview. However, it is clear by the layout, geography, and different residents in Sunset Valley that Pleasantview is not Sunset Valley. LostInRiverview 17:32, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

The Mayor Elections
I don't know why everyone is saying that Nick Alto and Gunther Goth are running for mayor. Nick and Gunther are both in the Buisness career, not the Politics career. The Samster 08:10, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

The Rhodes Family
Yesterday, I deleted the 'Rhodes Family' off the list of families in Sunset Valley, because they aren't in Sunset Valley, but today they were back on the list. If you are the person that are adding these, and they are your own creation, please move them to the Sims Fanon Wiki. The Samster 08:21, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Old Town and Sunset valley.
I'm starting to think that Pleasantview is a smaller section of Sunset valley (or close to it.). Though, I still think that Old Town (Neighborhood 1) and Sunset valley are more or less the same. I also have a theory that town(s) in question have taken a sharp economic down turn. We go from 90 lots and a large number of families to 6 families and 19 residential lots. Not to mention the loss of the Landgraab family (from Pleasantview anyway) and most of the town richest residents. The Goths don't have the money that they use to so they are the towns current richest family but, far from the richest ever. By the way, Isn't Neighborhood 1 25 years before Pleasantview? because in an interview with Ben Bell he said that sunset valley was 25 years before Pleasantview. So, which is it?

Kindofshy 20:16, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ursine Family and Hart Family
Does anyone know the addresses for the Ursine family and the Hart family? I want to add them to the page.

Thanks!


 * There's no addresses in The Sims games (at least I don't remember there ever being). But, the Claire Ursine (she's the only member of the Ursine family until her baby is born), leaves near the beach. The Hart family lives near central park, beside Christopher Steel (the only member of the Steel family). Bleeh 03:46, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

No there is, and I found them. Thanks anyway though!

According to Nraas'...
According to Nraas' Mastercontroller, it said that Sunset Valley actually has 92 lots not 97. Is this true? :O 86.183.251.38 (talk) 14:34, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I would rely on MC since it would be difficult for someone to manually count the total of lots, so I guess it's worth revising then.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  13:30, December 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * 92 lots but 97 buildings as the teathre, grocery, and bookstore share one lot, and i guess other lots either have no buildings or have more than one building. Like an house lot could have a gazebo or outhouse. Kaiko Mikkusu (talk) 18:29, May 10, 2014 (UTC)

Subplot about Stiles moving in with Boyd and Susan
I think it makes sense both aestethically and looking at the bios, and maybe that's why they decided to make Blair into Boyd and Susan's daughter. Since it's likely that at one point they're not related, with Boyd as Boyd Bronte and Susan as Susan Bronte. Kaiko Mikkusu (talk) 14:49, September 5, 2017 (UTC)