Talk:Unborn baby Monty

can you bring her back to life somehow?


 * Yes. If you resurrect Olivia, she is pregnant and she will give birth to Unborn baby Monty afterward.  Bakerychaz  ( talk page ·  blog ) 12:35, July 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Wrong.. Olivias pregnancy is a mesh you will have to get her to try for a baby again to get her pregnant. ParanormalJ (talk) 08:54, January 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Though the case has been months ago, I think this shouldn't confuse other readers. IIRC, when Olivia is resurrected, she won't be pregnant. She has to try for baby again, but the baby will not be this unborn one.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  09:12, January 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed.
 * -ParanormalJ (talk) 09:43, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Headshot
Where do you find the picture of the unborn baby in SimPE? I can't find it anywhere...Audball2108 (talk) 15:48, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Eh, I really can't tell... The picture has been added for a really long time but no one has ever addressed it before, but I guess you have your point... I thought it would be in Olivia's character data, but it's not there. Could it be just made-up? (Olivia and Claudio got resurrected and they tried for baby?)  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  16:13, March 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think it may be made up. The baby looks nothing like either of them, and I can't find it in any file, not Olivia's nor Claudio's. Audball2108 (talk) 18:51, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * According to how character data works, there should be no information on unborn babies as their files aren't created until after they're born. The adult image of "Unborn Baby Monty" has been removed due to lack of any credentials suggesting that this is true. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 19:04, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's what the baby would have looked like as an Adult! I know it's been months since someone discussed this but that most certainly is NOT what the baby would look like as an Adult. How would they know? Olivia isn't even pregnant when she's resurrected, and that Sim looks nothing like Claudio or Olivia, or indeed anyone except some townies and NPCs such as Seth Zaidi.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 10:56, January 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * What do you suggest? Do you know where the headshot was from? (Do you even know what headshot we were talking about? The said headshot has been deleted.)  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  16:01, January 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * The one with black hair in the same style as Tybalt Capp with the 18th face template - the one Seth Zaidi has - and an outfit similar to the one Daniel Pleasant wears. I have no idea where that image came from, but it doesn't seem to have any connection with the unborn baby of Claudio and Olivia.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 02:38, January 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, right. That's the headshot. The thing is, that headshot just appeared there with no explanation. We can't just say that would really have been him, unless there's a concrete reason for that.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  05:22, January 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * ......I doubt there is a concrete reason but fair enough.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 06:36, January 24, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know why but for some reason I want to see that image again. But of course it would then have to be restored.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 07:14, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Here.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  07:48, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. And yes the unborn baby certainly wouldn't have looked like that as an Adult and it certainly wouldn't have had facial hair by default. The person who uploaded the image must have put it there, for the sake of putting an image there. And then eventually someone else thought that it must have been a picture of what the baby would look like as an Adult.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 09:28, June 14, 2014 (UTC)


 * We can't usually tell the intent of a user's edits, but we should always assume good faith if there's no sign of malicious intent. After all, it's not uncommon for people to post images of "how a Sim would look like after they grow up at certain age".  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  15:04, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure the person uploading the image was acting in good faith. But I still don't know how the user came to think to put the image there to represent Unborn Baby Monty. Other than the fact that SimPE and the individual Sim's genetics / facial structures weren't as commercially well known at the time it was uploaded.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 04:17, June 17, 2014 (UTC)

Fat
How do we know the baby is fat? Dutch-tom (talk) 16:12, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't. The information suggesting this has been removed. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 19:02, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Had the baby been born, he or she would have been born thin. This happens with all Sims.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 04:11, February 23, 2014 (UTC)

Simology
Claudio Monty's genetics are for medium skin, light blue eyes and black hair and Olivia Monty's genetics are for medium skin, brown eyes and blonde hair. Wouldn't it make sense to add this deceased baby to the category for Sims with medium skin? I am aware that some of the Capp / Monty genetics are not linked correctly without expansion packs and all babies are thin when they are born. So why not add the Unborn Baby Monty to the categories for thin Sims and Sims with medium skin? I mean the said information I've written is true.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 03:01, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * No, this baby is unborn and doesn't have any physical appearance. And even if both parents have medium skin, the way the game calculates an outcome is always unpredictable (anything strange outside the rules may happen), so it's still considered speculative.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  05:35, February 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Normally if one's genetic information isn't recognized.


 * But what about the fitness level?  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 05:55, February 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * That counts as physical appearance too.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  06:07, February 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * But all babies will be thin when they are born. So that's what this babies' fitness level would have been. So is that still considered speculative?  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 06:10, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * I know that by default babies have thin fitness level. That's not speculative. The only part I talked about being speculative is the skin tone. But we can't put that because this Sim isn't even born. He's not thin nor fat. It's the same as saying all children are categorized as unemployed, while they cannot get a job in the first place, which is unfair and irrelevant.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  06:24, February 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay, I understand now.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 05:04, March 1, 2014 (UTC)

Headshot again
Well this time the headshot is the baby that apparently would look like if he... um... I don't even know by how. Resurrecting the *dead* baby? He's not even born. Resurrecting Olivia and Claudio, and then make them try for baby? How is it exactly that the appearance will be like that?  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  16:46, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

Because I resurrected Claudio and Olivia and made them try for baby. If you think about it:


 * All face templates (broken or un-broken) are linked to the 2nd face template (minus the hidden PT one) for the baby stage - this is why all babies have the same facial features.
 * Claudio has dominant and recessive genetics for black hair, light-blue eyes and medium skin.
 * Olivia has dominant and recessive genetics for blonde hair, brown eyes and medium skin.
 * Claudio's combined alleles for black hair will be dominant over Olivia's combined alleles for blonde hair. In turn, Olivia's alleles for brown eyes will be dominant over Claudio's alleles for light-blue eyes. Medium skin plus medium skin equals medium skin.

The way I see it - it's better having a head-shot that depicts what the baby would potentially have looked like, than simply having no head-shot. I asked a similar question on the 24th January 2014 on this page which another user answered. I wonder if it will convince others that this head-shot is worth keeping.

There is no other head-shot that will represent this baby better than this one - once again, the way I see it, an article looks better with a picture than without. --  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 22:42, July 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * Unborn Baby.png agree that it would look better if there were an image. However, since the baby was never born, there is no way of knowing how the baby actually looks even if we can speculate what the baby would likely look like. We don't even know the gender of the baby to begin with. That is why I think, if we are going to use an image, let's use something that shows that uncertainty. That is why I am purposing something like the image on the right that I created. - Icemandeaf (talk) 23:18, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

I disagree because all babies look the same regardless of gender. And for another - Unborn Baby Broke has never canonically been born yet. Also that image I uploaded doesn't show certainty to some degree - because we can't see what the facial features the baby will have when he/she gets older. --  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 23:23, July 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, that is true about Unborn Baby Broke because that is the nature of single-mother births in TS2. I just reviewed the information that you had about the parent's genes and see what you mean that the baby will have those expressed genes regardless of what randomness the game gives. Hmm... Something to think about. - Icemandeaf (talk) 23:37, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

And the image of Tycho Curious? That's something to think about. --  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 23:39, July 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * That one, I'm not convinced with personally. The article even says that it is possible for other looks, such as the skintone being like Pascal's. If it were the image used within the PSP game, then I might be more convinced. But I think that is a different matter because it starts to get into information about the character within cannon. - Icemandeaf (talk) 23:44, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

Well in that case I think we should still keep that image I uploaded, because it's possible for other looks in the Unborn Baby Monty's case. --  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 23:51, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

The way I see it - it's better having a head-shot that depicts what the baby would potentially have looked like, than simply having no head-shot.


 * I disagree. Some things cannot be represented visually. It's as if I'm trying to find a red autumn leaf, but I can't find any in my place, so I paint / photoshop it and claim it so. That's wrong because it's not and it's made up. Don't force making up things if it's not particularly genuine. Hence, I disagree if we use the generic blue silhouette baby picture to represent the unborn babies, because what for, to be specific?


 * I thought the image of Tycho Curious was removed? Or at least, I thought it used to be.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  08:08, July 12, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with what Nikel said about the silhouette. We shouldn't use the generic blue silhouette baby picture because we can't see what the baby looks like and thus it isn't specific. --  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 08:16, July 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * It was just a thought of giving a image to an unborn baby without implying that the baby will definitely look a certain way, but I see your point now.


 * As far as Tycho Curious goes, there is an image there. - Icemandeaf (talk) 15:36, July 12, 2014 (UTC)

And I take it, we can keep the image that I uploaded. --  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 22:21, July 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, my argument wasn't only about the silhouette, but also about the current headshot in this article. But I guess your explanation made sense... It seems right that the baby's appearance will almost look like that. As for whether to keep it or not, I'm not sure. Maybe we can keep it. I'm against it, but I don't have any strong arguments to oppose it.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  08:01, July 14, 2014 (UTC)

Just a note, I was kinda aware that your argument wasn't only about the silhouette.

I've performed like fifty genetic tests and each of them had the same result - black hair, brown eyes and medium skin. So I guess that it's right that the baby's appearance will look exactly like that. But I think I understand your point as well. --  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 22:04, July 14, 2014 (UTC)

A thing I never knew...
For a while, I've wondered how people know of the Unborn Baby Monty's existence. I've heard that Olivia isn't pregnant if she is resurrected and the baby seemingly doesn't exist in the game. The only way I can think of is that Olivia's body type is recognized as that of a pregnant person in SimPE. Would somebody explain this thing to me? OoppDecks (talk) 21:59, October 26, 2014 (UTC)


 * It's unclear whether the baby really existed, but because Olivia's body type is recognized as that of a pregnant person, we can safely assume that the baby was originally supposed to exist. --  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 22:05, October 26, 2014 (UTC)


 * Olivia Monty's biography mentions her pregnancy. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 22:15, October 26, 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh, okay. --  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 22:28, October 26, 2014 (UTC)