Forum:Wiki theme redesign

I'm starting a new thread to discuss this idea, even though we have a thread (Forum:Changing the header image) discussing part of what I'm proposing. Ultimately what I'm suggesting goes beyond the scope of that thread.

I would like for us to get in contact with the Wikia Community Development Team. Specifically, we can request a redesigned background and header image for the wiki, preferably themed around The Sims 4. We could also consider a more broad theme update, including changes to the Main Page, portal pages, and maybe even our infobox template designs. Our wiki worked with the team the last time we did a major redesign, and the end result was a major improvement over what came before it, and it was achieved without a lot of headaches on our end.

We're still a couple months away from the release of The Sims 4. This gives us ample time to make the request, work closely with a member of the team to come up with a design that works for us, and implement it. What do you all think? --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 19:17, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Should we request a redesign?
Support. I think EA has released enough Sims 4 screenshots, images, and previews for us to properly design our wiki to fit in with the... Sims 4 theme. Seeing our previous success, it seems to come without question that we should do it again. If I'm not reciting a curse for the wiki, then I'd gladly support. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 19:25, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Neutral I'd prefer we create our own design. We can always start a wiki design contest and allowing the users to vote. I'm fine if we end up letting the Wikia Content Team design yet again, but I think we're better off being a bit more original when it comes to the design department. EpicJoyBoy  (My talk page!)  07:27, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Personally I don't think we need any more further changes. I like the wiki's design how it is.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 09:16, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

In response to EpicJoyBoy... I would agree with you on the idea of holding a contest or otherwise making it a community activity, except that we've tried to do this on several occasions and it almost always fails, because of either lack of interest, lack of artistic ability, or lack of initiative. We've had the New Header discussion open since the end of January and we haven't had a single design submitted so far. This is sadly not unusual.

The Community Development Team's purpose is to go into wikis and help out. Creating new themes and improving the appearance of the wiki is one of their actual jobs, so if we ask for help and they agree, we're guaranteed to get something out of it, versus a contest or discussion thread, which may not ever result in anything. Furthermore, we've worked with members of that Team before and they are very helpful and cooperative; they seek out community input in what they do and design, and they won't act unless we approve of the changes they propose. Bringing them in to help out is a lot like hiring someone to redecorate your house - they're experts at what they do and their job is to implement the wishes of the "owner". --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 01:30, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Support - I'll be honest, I brought up this theme discussion (starting with the logo) early so that we'd have enough time to get a full TS4-inspired theme implemented incrementally. I had also hoped that others would get involved so that the same three or four individuals wouldn't be doing everything ourselves. Obviously my plan failed though it's nobody's fault in particular. Asking the Community Development Team would be a good idea. It worked well before and I can't see why it wouldn't work well again. 18:36, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Support - The development team did a good job the last time they implemented a new design. I'm excited to see what they have planned. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 19:13, June 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * The request is in. -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 05:39, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

What needs to be changed?
In the interests of keeping this discussion organized, I've decided to break this page up into sections. This is specifically because there are two questions that need answering. First, do we want to request Community Development Team assistance; that discussion is taking place in the section above this one. Second, if we do indeed want help, what do we want to change? I think it would be best for us all to talk about what we want to see out of this project, if it is carried out. Please respond below with what you think should be changed, and/or what you think should be left alone. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 22:52, June 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * The only thing that comes to mind is... to make this wiki a bit "The Sims 4" themed. The wiki logo already has that treatment. The background for the navigation bar is still Sims 3 designed, so we could replace it with Sims 4 characters. Still haven't thought of the background though... --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 13:28, June 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * The wikiheader and the wikibackground should definitely be changed. Other than that, the wiki is fine as is. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 19:13, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

New theme discussion
Our redesign request was approved, and we have JoePlay helping us out. So, we need some specific ideas for what kind of design we want. I can't remember exactly how this process went the last time we did a redesign, but I think a good place to start would be to get some ideas for what kind of designs we want. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 17:48, June 26, 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello editors! LostInRiverview asked me to drop by here to say hi, so I am. :) It's always a good idea to get the community involved in any redesign, so I commend LiR for doing so. Take as much as you need to discuss ideas for a new skin background and WikiHeader background. When you've reached an agreement, I'll be happy to help implement the new design. JoePlay http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/joeplayground/images/a/a5/WikiaStaff2.png (talk)  22:02, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello JoePlay. Now that we have the wiki colors and the wiki logo sorted out, we have to figure out the background and the wikiheader. The wikiheader I can sort-of get an idea of; should we use the Sims from the boxart, like we did with The Sims 3? --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 13:08, June 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * We could branch off from one of these images (Courtesy of Wallpaper Wonder): 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 13:21, June 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Those are nice looking backgrounds... however, those particular ones won't work in our case since most of it would be blocked by the content space. We have transparency on our articles, but it would either be set so low that you wouldn't be able to see the picture, or so high that it would be difficult to read the words against the background. Ultimately, a simple background or one that can be divided onto either side of the content space is better. On top of this, we have to consider what the background looks like at different screen resolutions. I think those are good looking designs, but we'll have to tweak them to make them work right.
 * On the subject of WikiHeader backgrounds... I personally like the background in the first image Auror linked, the blue hexagons. As I recall, we had blue hexagons as part of the wiki background with either the Island Paradise or Into the Future temporary themes. Otherwise, we could use the green plumbbob design that I've seen on other Sims Wikis (like the French Les Sims Wiki), though perhaps made such that the green plumbbobs are more readily visible. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 09:02, July 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd be very interested in knowing if we can implement the hexagonal feature for the new theme. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 00:02, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, aside from Auror's comment there hasn't been any activity in this thread in a month. Due to a lack of other ideas, I'd like to suggest that we borrow the header image design from Les Sims Wiki, if for no other reason than it seems to be what the other wikis are doing, and we're a bit short on time. As for the main wiki background, I would suggest that we pick a simple image or pattern, not a picture. The background shouldn't be so obtrusive that it draws away from the article. And if we have transparency set on the articles, we need to make sure it's not too transparent or that the background behind the content space isn't too distracting. If anything, maybe JoePlay can come up with some new design following those guidelines? -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 11:58, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of using the hexagon background in this picture as the background. Of course, I'm not suggesting to use that exact image, but only the background. As for the header, maybe we can use some of the Sims lined up together like in this picture. Icemandeaf (talk) 14:30, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Right now, we are very close to the release date (with only five days left until the release of The Sims 4) and this thread hasn't gotten anywhere at all in the past few weeks, I'd like to have my own input into this discussion.


 * We could use the second background Auror suggested, as it's fairly simplistic enough for wiki use, and doesn't really detract much aside from the Sims in the middle and the logo at the top. I think we could remove the logo at the top, but I honestly don't think we can unless the creator allows it or if the wallpaper is released under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 license or similar.  EpicJoyBoy   (My talk page!)  18:46, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

EMERGENCY VOTING
We have less than 24 hours until The Sims 4 is released.

File:Proposed_Background_1.png

Votes for Option 1

 * 1) EpicJoyBoy   (My talk page!)  08:45, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * 13:08, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 13:10, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * 2) Beds (talk - blog ) 14:55, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * 3) -- RoseGui ✿ ( talk ) 18:38, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * 4) MILK FOR THE UNYUUFEX, FLAT CHEST FOR THE CUTENESS THRONE, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL PROBES  (user talk:Mathetesalexandrou) 01:07, September 3, 2014 (UTC)

File:Proposed_Background_2.png

Votes for Option 2

 * 1) Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 08:02, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * 2) &#8213; Wiki Builder  1147  (Infinite Histories • Galactic Crucibles • The Sims Wiki • Hallows Maleficent • Why I'm here in the first place ) 08:37, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * 3)  .ThePeculiarMe  |  (talk to me)  |  (my mistakes)  11:20, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1)  .ThePeculiarMe  |  (talk to me)  |  (my mistakes)  11:20, September 1, 2014 (UTC)

Votes to stay the same

 * 1) Both backgrounds are seriously flawed; the image on the background will be obscured by the main content space and nothing will be visible on the sides except the background pattern. --  LostInRiverview talk ~  blog 18:32, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * 2) I agree with LostInRiverview. WayfinderOwl (talk) 20:07, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * 3) I can't vote for either backgrounds because of the same thing that LiR stated above. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I think that the background of those images without the other stuff in it would be a better choice. Icemandeaf (talk) 01:30, September 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * 4) I think both backgrounds are too extravagant. We need a simpler one.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  10:23, September 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * 5) I find both backgrounds quite terrible. The current background is simplistic but effective. OoppDecks (talk) 08:12, October 1, 2014 (UTC)

Conclusion
The wikiheader from our french counterpart (LSW) will also function as the header here. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk)
 * In a 5-4-2 vote, the majority prefer Option 1. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 02:35, September 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Closure of this thread is pending. For the moment, it remains open. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 02:38, September 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why is the closure pending? Consensus showed support for Option 1. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 02:39, September 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * The vote was thirteen days shorter than mandated in wiki policies. There is a question of whether such a short-duration vote can be used to determine official consensus. The issue is under consideration presently; until a resolution to that question is found, this thread should remain open. -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 02:43, September 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd like to explain the reservations openly. The issue with the vote on this page is that it took place in violation of the wiki's voting policies. Specifically, the vote was set to last for only one day and was started by a non-administrator, whereas policy requires votes to last for 14 days and requires them to be initiated only by admins. The main issue here is one of vote duration. I understand the desire to resolve the vote quickly, since the idea of the theme change is to change the theme before the release of The Sims 4. However, it has been argued that the change being voted on here is not so urgent that it needs to be resolved immediately. If we do not resolve the vote today, the worst case scenario is that our background is not updated in time for The Sims 4. This is not an issue which causes problems for the wiki either in the short-term or long-term, as the wiki's background is not a vital matter of importance for the continued function of the wiki. As a result, there is no good reason to ignore the community-adopted policy that we already have on the books. The purpose of the rule as it exists now is to ensure that votes are not held in such a manner where interested persons would not be able to participate. Not all people visit the wiki every day, so they may be unfairly denied a chance to participate in a vote if the vote only lasts for a day. This is the same reason wiki votes are not held on the Chat or IRC channels - not all users use or have access to those mediums, and not all users who use them are online at all times of the day. The right of all users to participate in the decision-making process cannot be sacrificed simply for the sake of convenience or urgency, unless there is a true necessity to do so.
 * The present course is to await the results of the APTP discussion. That will help determine whether this vote will be accepted as-is, overturned fully or overturned in part, or if some other action will be pursued instead. In the meantime, I would consider the vote still open and thus this thread is not yet ready to be closed. If another administrator feels I've misinterpreted the situation or am not handling this fairly or properly, I invite them to reverse my decision. -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 02:59, September 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * May I propose another background? It's the background used for CAS . When cropped, it will look like this .  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  10:23, September 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Introducing a new background would make it necessary to invalidate the previous vote. -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 01:10, September 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * The vote was against wiki policies anyway, so we're better off just closing the vote and going back to discussion. And should we contact JoePlay regarding the backgrounds, in the case that he knows a bit more about this? --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 01:39, September 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * Perhaps JoePlay can help us on the background issue, but he can't help us solve the current matter. I think we should restart the vote, but have an administrator do it, and they ensure that it follows policies. I know it would make us behind schedule due to the release of The Sims 4, but policies have to be followed. There wouldn't be any point in having these specific policies if no one was going to follow them. There is no harm in having a late background implemented, I don't think anyone would mind. Besides all that, it also allows more users to have a say on the new background. Beds (talk - blog ) 09:49, September 3, 2014 (UTC)

Restart
Based on the discussion above and the applicable policies, the vote above is nullified. As current rules allow only admins to start official votes, we shall return to discussion until a vote is needed, if it is.

Onto the matter at hand. We have the two backgrounds that were voted on - File:Proposed_Background_1.png and File:Proposed_Background_2.png. We also have Nikel's suggested image -. If we're allowing discussion, then we may as well allow new background submissions. But, to help this thread along, I'm going to impose a week time limit. Anyone can suggest a new background here at any time within the next week. At the end of the week, we'll limit any further discussion or votes to only those designs that were submitted. However, another option at our disposal is contacting JoePlay again and asking him for his help in designing a background. However, we should have a general idea of the kind of background we want, and that unfortunately hasn't developed. But, if you think we should pursue that route, we can.

So, before this timer expires, either submit a background image idea, weigh in on a current image idea, or suggest that we work with JoePlay to design a new image. Time remaining:.

--  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 08:36, September 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm going to say that all of the background suggestions are kind of a mixed bag, to be honest. The first is alright to start with, but needs tweaking so that the Sims are on the sides. The second isn't all that great; the background is taken from the ITF loading screen and I'm not even sure how I can comment on the logo at the bottom.


 * Nikel's suggestion is fairly great and would be my preferred option if it was available during the emergency voting, but it's also fairly simplistic to start with. It could use some more details, but I'm not sure how to make it work so that we don't go overboard with it. EpicJoyBoy   (My talk page!)  10:07, September 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * The timer has expired and no one has responded. I say we just go with the results of the emergency voting. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 20:04, September 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Bump. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 22:03, September 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * Sticky situation we're in, aren't we? The illegal vote's results are nullified, yet still seem to be what remains of any "consensus", if there ever was one. I still stick with my decision to go with the first background, though the second one isn't too far off. I don't like Nikel's proposed background though -- it... doesn't really look obvious that it's from The Sims, almost like something from Windows Vista or Windows 7, which might make this the Microsoft 2007-2012 wiki. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 22:13, September 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * This whole discussion is incredibly quiet and definitely not going anywhere right now, but I'd like to suggest we use the TS4 loading screen as our background image, or at least something similar to this. It's fairly similar to our current background, except that there is only a single plumbbob at the center and the background is all white.


 * It's fairly simplistic, but what I'm not too certain about is readability, especially with a single large plumbbob at the center. What do you think about it? EpicJoyBoy   (My talk page!)  19:41, September 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * It's okay. However I'd rather use the consensus from the emergency voting. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 20:25, September 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * The background is a bit too empty and too plain. I don't really like it. --I am  k6ka  Talk to me!   See what I have done  20:38, September 30, 2014 (UTC)

Using the results of the emergency vote would not be appropriate. First, the vote did not take place in line with the wiki's voting policies. Second, the vote did not allow a vote for the status quo. Third, even if the first two points were not true or were dismissed, the fact is the vote did not result in a consensus for any of the options; a 5-4-2 outcome means that a majority (six out of eleven) did not support the most popular option. Since this thread is now being publicized, I feel we should come to some sort of conclusion. But using the results of the emergency vote is simply not an option.

Onto the matter at hand. I have to stick with what I said in the emergency vote; in a choice between all the options proposed, my vote will go towards keeping the background we have. I have not seen any good background designs, so I think we should just keep what we have. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 23:10, September 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Maybe we could keep the same style of background that we have now, but have the plumbobs in cluster strings on the sides going vertically like how the plumbobs are arranged horizontally in the File:Proposed Background 2.png. I could do a modification of the current background to make it look the way I am describing, but I don't think that it would look great that way. Although I could probably make something from scratch following that idea that would be somewhat similar, but better quality than a modification. -- Icemandeaf (talk) 00:57, October 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * Icemandeaf, I like that idea. If we don't eventually find another background, then I'm fine with keeping the current background. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 18:12, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

Closing
This thread has not reached any clear conclusion and has not been contributed to in over a month. That constitutes a dead thread and thus it is archived with no consensus or decision reached. The issues raised in the thread may be addressed in a new thread. --  LostInRiverview talk • blog  •  contribs 06:58, November 28, 2014 (UTC)