Forum:Administrator retirement and reinstatement

A question was asked on the IRC Channel about whether a former administrator (who resigned) would be able to request a reinstatement of their administrator rights without having to go through a request for administratorship. The wiki used to have a policy on the books which answered this question, but as a result of this discussion, it is no longer official policy. So, I would like to propose that we clarify our official position on administrator resignations. To be specific, we should focus on resolving at least these questions:
 * 1) Can a retired administrator request their rights back without going through the RfA process?
 * 2) If yes, should there be a deadline to this request - do they need to ask for them back within a certain period after their resignation?
 * 3) When an administrator retires, should they retain rollback rights by default? (presently, it's customary to give rollback rights to retiring administrators, since they had them prior to promotion)
 * 4) Should other rights typically awarded to administrators (e.g. Chat Moderator rights, IRC operator rights) be removed from retiring administrators, or should they be allowed to keep them?

Those are the most significant questions that come to my mind, but there could be others. I have my own opinion on what the answers to these questions should be, but I'll hold off until others have had a chance to weigh in. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 06:50, June 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Edit: There's additional information that I forgot to include in the first post. This is a link to the retired policy page. Here is the specific retired rule that used to govern these situations:
 * 4 - If an admin knows they will be inactive for a prolonged/unknown period of time (3 months or longer), they should step down and they may request to be reinstated at any time. A user who has been absent for 3 months, who hadn't stepped down beforehand, will have their rights revoked as if they had become inactive and they'll have 6 months to request to be reinstated before they're required to go through another RfA. Special cases to extend or revoke an administratorship may be brought to the attention of current administrators. If an administrator is banned permanently from The Sims Wiki, their rights are automatically revoked. 
 * A fair bit of that policy specifically applied to administrators who were removed for being inactive, but looking through the rest of it, we can answer a couple questions about how this used to work. An administrator who voluntarily resigned could request their rights back at any time, without a deadline, and without having to go through an RfA. The policy as it was written did not determine whether rollback or other rights would be retained if an administrator resigned. -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 07:07, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion
Hmmm, I like this idea. I personally think that they should retain their rollback rights by default (unless they explicitly state otherwise). With retired administrators, I think they can request for their rights back and if a bureaucrat approves then yes they get their administrator rights back.

P.S. AsherÉire had retired from editing as of 17th April 2014. While she still has her admin rights, I believe it is pretty pointless to keep her name on the administrator board if she has officially retired from editing.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 07:01, June 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * So you're suggesting that the ability to request their rights back should be given to them indefinitely? And should the resigned administrator be given chat moderator and IRC operator rights by default when they resign? --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 07:08, June 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * In reply to the first comment LiR posted after mine. I think so.  C.Syde  ( talk &#124;  contribs ) 08:09, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

1. I believe it should be possible under certain circumstances.

2. Probably 6 months, or 3. Any web site, or any online service with a community, or indeed any community is dynamic. It's not going to be the same as it was a year ago, in all likelihood.

3. I don't see why not. Consider they did have to pass the RfA in the past, which is not possible for just anyone.

4. In response to question 4, should it be significant if such rights/powers were obtained prior to the successful RfA proposal? I believe it should be, but discussing this in detail would derail this thread and discussion. For now, these should probably be treated in a manner similar to rollback.

Ben (talk) 07:06, June 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * In regards to point 4, I don't think discussing it would really derail the discussion as a whole. Presently, administrators are required to have rollback prior to being promoted to administrator, whereas chat moderator and IRC operator roles are not required. But, once a user becomes an administrator, they're entitled to IRC op and Chat Moderator rights by virtue of their position as administrators. So if I understand what you're suggesting... if the admin had Chat Mod or IRC Op rights prior to becoming administrator, they should get them back upon resignation; but if they didn't have those rights prior to promotion, they shouldn't get them after they resign. Am I understanding you correctly? --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 07:12, June 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * More or less, that's correct. However, it can be trickier. I foresee a situation such as an Administrator who may not edit much and would perhaps step down. Yet he frequents the Chat and/or the IRC channel, and he intends to continue using it for the foreseeable future. As an example, imagine if through some quirk of fate I obtained Administrator. Later on, I lose interest in The Sims and decide it's not appropriate for me to retain those powers. However, I've been in the IRC channel for a long time and intend to continue to do so. Now imagine if I obtained Administrator instead of RfIRCChannelOp. I hope you see what I'm getting at. Ben (talk) 07:25, June 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that is a good question indeed. I personally would lean towards allowing them to keep IRCop and/or ChatMod if they were active on those channels. The process required for applying for those positions usually requires some community consensus for promotion, which is a standard also applied (usually even more stringently) to administrator candidates. If a user is promoted to admin, it shows that the community trusts them, and since administrator rights also include IRC op and Chat Mod, it would mean by extension that the community trusts that user to also serve as a chat mod and IRC operator. If the user later retired, that doesn't mean the trust is taken away. -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 07:33, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Depending on the circumstances, I feel a retired administrator should be allowed to request their rights back, I'm in between thoughts of the RfA process, but I guess it depends on the user who wishes for their rights back and if they have shown enough activeness. As for the time period, I think six months of retirement should be enough to allow the user to request for their rights again. Rollback rights, on the other hand, should be retained as they had them in the first place to acquire the rollback rights. And if they did wish to perhaps come back after a couple of months of retirement, then they wouldn't have to go through the process of obtaining rollback rights once again. And finally, for question four, it should be depended on their activity on IRC and Chat. Beds (talk - blog ) 11:48, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

1. Can a retired administrator request their rights back without going through the RfA process?

A. If they were in good standing when they had their rights removed, then yes.

2. If yes, should there be a deadline to this request - do they need to ask for them back within a certain period after their resignation?

A. I would say 6 months to a year would be enough grace period. After that, they'll have to go through the RFA procedures again.

3. When an administrator retires, should they retain rollback rights by default? (presently, it's customary to give rollback rights to retiring administrators, since they had them prior to promotion)

A. Unless they specifically request it, I think they should be left with the rollback rights.

4. Should other rights typically awarded to administrators (e.g. Chat Moderator rights, IRC operator rights) be removed from retiring administrators, or should they be allowed to keep them?

A. Depending or not whether they were actively exercising such rights. If an administrator never even set foot in any of the chat rooms, they can safely have it removed. That doesn't mean they can't re-request it later on, though. And you certainly don't need moderator rights to chat.

--k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 11:59, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Most of the responses so far suggest that a retiring administrator should be able to retain Chat Mod/IRC op rights, depending on whether or not they're active in one or both of those channels. How should this activity be determined? What would be the mechanism to determine if a retiring administrator is active in Chat or IRC. On the other hand, could the resigning administrator simply request to retain IRC op and/or Chat Mod in their resignation? -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 15:11, June 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * I would say... at least once a week, maybe? It's hard to draw the line right now, since Wikia Chat has been quite quiet recently. Haven't set foot in IRC for a while. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 13:32, June 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * Once a week is a little bit fair, I was thinking maybe two or three days a week for activity on both Chat and IRC. Nevertheless, if the retiring administrator doesn't want to keep their IRC and Chat benefits, then they can just easily say so in their resignation too. Beds (talk - blog ) 19:55, June 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * From a logistical standpoint, how will this be handled when an administrator resigns? Establishing an activity requirement would mean that you need some mechanism to determine how active someone is. And since resignations aren't usually announced in advance, you'd need a process that can quickly come up with that answer. So either you're leaving it in the hands of the bureaucrats to decide who is or isn't active. Otherwise, we have to have some sort of community response to determine if someone is active or not. If we're doing that, we might as well just have the resigning admin go through an RfCM or RfIRCOP request because it will take about as much time.


 * The point I'm making here is that it seems most reasonable to just let the retiring administrator decide whether they want to have op or chat moderator rights upon their resignation, without having to meet some sort of minimum activity criteria. --  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 20:30, June 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * That could work, I guess. So if an administrator resigns in good standing, they will be able to retain rollback, Chat moderator, and Chan op rights automatically, unless they specifically request for those to be removed as well. I assume sysops de-sysopped due to unacceptable behaviour don't get a choice, or is this too harsh? --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 20:40, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

I'm just going to get straight to the point with this and answer the four points brought up on this thread's inception.


 * 1) Yes. If they wish to retain their former rights in an effort to assist then why not?
 * 2) I don't see the need for a deadline. If they gave up their rights on good terms, is the trust necessarily gone? If they just want to retain their rights in order to benefit the wiki then I don't see why time should matter.
 * 3) I'm okay with this. Some former admins have become, for the lack of a better term, "part time editors" in the past and could use this.
 * 4) This is the most difficult part of this proposal to tackle and what has made up the bulk of this thread so far. Actually determining activity in both Chat and IRC is difficult and somewhat menial, enough so that even going this route seems like a bigger headache than it's even worth. Is it really worth a retiring admin who only goes to Chat once a year having chatmod rights? To echo K6ka, you don't need to be a chatmod to actually chat. I move that for the sake of fairness and clarity, retiring admins have their chatmod and/or IRC op rights removed. After all, they'll still be welcome to make a request for those rights should they wish to.

That's all I got. 18:26, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

How to handle IRCOps and Chat Moderator rights
It seems like we've reached a good agreement on the first three points I raised initially. The consensus seems to be that an administrator who resigns and is in good standing when they resign (i.e. they're not being involuntarily demoted) should be able to request rights back without a formal RfA process within six months of resignation. It seems everyone is overwhelmingly in favor of having retiring administrators retain rollback rights indefinitely (unless they resign those rights as well). The only sticking point we've had is on IRCOps and Chat Moderator rights. Some suggest that the rights should be granted automatically to ex-admins, some suggest that they should be given on a case-by-case basis according to how active the user is/was in those channels, and some suggest that the rights should be removed by default when an administrator resigns.

In my opinion, and for the sake of simplicity, I'm going to agree with what Lab suggested above, and say that Chat Mod and IRCop rights shouldn't be granted to retiring administrators by default. However, I'd like to suggest that we do grant rights if the retiring administrator had them prior to becoming an administrator.

What are your thoughts? -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 02:01, July 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Support. They can always ask to retain these rights when retiring, or request them later on, as long as they are in good standing. Really... that's it. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 02:32, July 2, 2014 (UTC)

Conclusion
The discussion here has wrapped up, so I've amended The Sims Wiki:Policy/Administrative Policies with the new rules as discussed here. Note that several people above mentioned the ability of admins in "good standing" to request rights back... since that term isn't defined, I did my best to define it in the policy and put in an escape clause for the community to use in such an event where an admin isn't in good standing when they retired. Feel free to alter the wording as you see fit. -  LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 09:29, July 12, 2014 (UTC)