Forum:Sim Page Standardization

Hello, I'm mhavril39 and I've been editing on this wiki, and one thing that has really come to bother me is that there is really no "stard" way to set up a sim's bio page. There are all kinds of deviations, so I thought that I'd list them and have people recommend what they think is the best way to put the information on Sim's pages, until a consensus is reached. Here are the things that deviate generally:
 * 1) Biography-
 * 2) Some of the sim's actual biographies are ordered 3, 1, 2 (by game), and others 1, 2, 3.
 * 3) Some include what stage of the sim's life he or she was in at the time of that game in the title, and others don't.
 * 4) Family-
 * 5) Some use the terms "unknown" and "none" when there is no member present, while others leave the fields blank.
 * 6) Many mention "deceased" after the field of a dead relative, while others do not, even when the sim is deceased
 * 7) NEW- If "deceased is used, in what tense should it be? If they were dead in all 3 games, just 1 or 2 (ex: Betty Newbie?) or if they were deceased in the most recent game?
 * 8) Life State-
 * 9) In the simbio boxes, "regular" sims often have the field life state left blank, while some have "Human" in this field.
 * 10) Some deceased sims have the field blank, some have "Human," and some have "Ghost."
 * 11) Favorites- For the simbio3 field "Favorites," some sims have just their three, separated with commas, while others have the category names present as well (ex: "Pop, Spaghetti, Yellow" or "Music- Pop, Food- Spaghetti, Color- Yellow")
 * 12) Spelling- Most articles seem to used mixed British, American, Australian, Canadian, etc. spellings. On Wikipedia, it is general policy to use only one, usually the one associated with the topic (i.e. the London article is in British English, the Washington article is in American English, etc.) Should a standard spelling be used for all articles, or just keep it consistent per every article?
 * 13) Point of View- Many articles use mixed third (he, she, they), second (you), and first (I, we) person points of view. It generally preferred on Wikipedia to use third person only, although there are many articles here that use all three.

Feel free to add other inconsistent things that should be brought to view.

Suggestions
Add your ideas on how the pages should be standardized here:

Mhavril39
Here's what I think we should do:
 * 1) Biography-
 * 2) Go in order 3, 1, 2, using a biography section with the games as subsections. I think they should go in chronological order since it is their biography.
 * 3) Don't add none, unnecessary. The reader will understand. Do use unknown.
 * 4) Family-
 * 5) Useless, as if it isn't there, I'm sure that the reader will presume that that sim's relative was never mentioned.
 * 6) I think we should totally drop deceased, using it only in the "playability" field in the sim's bio.
 * 7) I think that if deceased is not dropped, tehn it should be used if the sim was deceased in the most chronologically recent game-- i.e. Betty Newbie would have deceased because she is dead in The Sims 2, the most recent game in terms of the timeline.
 * 8) Life State-
 * 9) I suppose that Human should be used in all "regular" situations, but I could definitely be swayed on this one.
 * 10) Ghost is technically correct, but some deceased relative's graves are unseen, so if the ghost is never actually seen, I can't say if that is the right thing to put in that field.
 * 11) Favorites- I feel that the category is unnecessary and the reader will understand what each favorite is.
 * 12) Spelling- I think American English should be preferred for every article, just for the means of consistency.
 * 13) Point of View- Because this is meant to look like a professional encyclopedia, I believe that first and second person are completely inappropriate with the exception of quotes.

ErzengelLichtes
I don't look at the simbio pages so I don't recognize most of those problems. There should certainly be some consistency however. For Spelling, I think we should use a consistent spelling method at least within each article. However, even The Sims 3 isn't particularly consistent. In my US release, most words are written in American English, but there are sometimes notable exceptions (such as Theatre) where EA Blackbox fell into their Canadian habits. As for POV, First Person should be completely and utterly off limits outside of Player Stories and Talk pages. If I ever, ever see a first person I fix it with a note in the "reason for edit" saying that first person is wrong. Second person is a bit more iffy, but should probably be avoided.

Bayoubash
Here's what I have to say;

1. For sims that appeared in the three games (such as Mortimer Goth, etc.) leave it as it is. The Sims is first, The Sims 2 is second and The Sims 3 is third. If the sim appeared in any more games just put the info on the page, not on the bio. (To make it easier, if the sim appeared in more than just 1 game, use the original template).

2. For sims that appeared only in The Sims 2, leave it as it is.

3. Biographies: Put it under an image, and not "Apperance in The Sims ...".

4. For families, it should be in every page. But, if the sim is an NPC or Townie, don't add the family name.

5. Third person view is used in a wiki, not I or me. You is good, I think.

6. If a user is a bad speller, watch out for what you typed.

7. Names should start with a capital letter, and instead of the Sims 2, the Sims 3 or The Sims 1, use The Sims 2, The Sims 3 and The Sims.

Hope that helps.

KazeNoYouko says...
These are just my opinions:


 * 1) Biography-
 * 2) The 3, 1, 2 order is appropriate, because if one is writing a biography, the events should be in chronological order, no?
 * 3) I'm not to sure what this one is looking for...
 * 4) Family-
 * 5) I use unknown when there are no parents on the family tree, or for spouse if the sim had a child without a father/mother. If the sim is too young to have a spouse, or has no siblings or children, I use none.
 * 6) I think we should indicate that the relative is deceased.
 * 7) Life State-
 * 8) I always write Human in this field.
 * 9) If the Sim is actually a ghost, i.e. Lolita Goth, then the bio should indicate that. If they are not a ghost, or their grave doesn't exist, i.e. Andromache Thebe, it should just say Human.
 * 10) Favorites- What works for me with Favourites is Music:Whatever - Food:Whatever - Colour:Whatever
 * 11) Spelling- I haven't noticed any real spelling differences between pages. A long as the spelling and grammar are correct, the little differences shouldn't matter.
 * 12) Point of View- Wikipedia asside, good reports and articles should be written in third person, unless the article is something based on opinions. We should even try to move off of 'you'.

Zmario's Opinion

 * 1) Life State - Should include Life Stage/State/playability
 * 2) Family - All Children/Spouses/Family(Extended family included)
 * 3) Gallery - A Gallery of Pictures/Videos
 * 4) See Also - Link to the family page/character bios
 * 5) Categories - The Categories are jumbled up. Some are needed to be added and some are needed to be deleted.

Aster's Opinion

 * 1) Biography-
 * 1, 2, 3
 * 1) Unecessary
 * 2) Family-
 * 3) I use "unknown" when there are no parents on the family tree, or for spouse if the sim had a child without a father/mother. I don't use "none" (field blank).
 * 4) I use "deseased" if the sim is deseased in The Sims, The Sims 2, The Sims 3 (ex: Victor Goth).
 * 5) Life State-
 * 6) I always write "Human"
 * 7) "Ghost" if the sim is deceased and if the tombstone exist (ex: Darleen Dreamer). "Human" if the sim is deceased and if the tombstone doesn't exist (ex: Hero Monty).
 * 8) Favorites- Music/---, Food/---, Color/---
 * 9) Spelling- ...
 * 10) Point of View- Third person

Bob Newbie is kl

 * 1) Biography-
 * 3,1,2 if they don't appear in a game then miss that game out. eg. if they don't appear in The Sims 3 then it would go 2,1
 * 1) I think it should say how old they are eg. Bella Goth:Child - Adult - Adult
 * 2) Family-
 * 3) Should say Unknown
 * 4) Should say (Deceased) if deceased in The Sims 2
 * 5) Life State-
 * 6) Should say Human
 * 7) Should say Ghost
 * 8) Favorites- Should say Colour - Yellow
 * 9) Spelling- Doesn't matter as long as every English nation understands it
 * 10) Point of View- Third Person

Matt's /Matta_jr's opinion
What a good idea this page is! This is what I think-


 * 1) Biography-
 * 2) It should be ordered 1,2,3
 * 3) I dont know
 * 4) Family-
 * 5) We should not put none or unknown.
 * 6) deceased is important! leave that please
 * 7) Life State-
 * 8) It should be human
 * 9) Only put ghost if the person has a visible grave. If not state there life state.
 * 10) Favorites- With categories please.
 * 11) Spelling- I kinda get what your saying. But thats what makes a wiki special; the mix of different people from different countries and cultures from all over the world. And if we just used say american lingo I wouldn't know what to write because I'm British.
 * 12) Point of View- we should use third person only!

sorry if this is a bit brief. I have to dash off! ;)

Bella Goth
Thanks for asking me what I think!--Bella Goth 18:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)Bella Goth
 * 1) Biography
 * 2) I think it should be listed 1, 2, 3
 * 3) Yes, indicate what life stage the sim is currently in.
 * 4) Family
 * 5) I think it should state unknown and none.the most recent game I guess.
 * 6) Yes, it should state whether or not the Sims is deceased.
 * Um,
 * 1) Life State
 * 2) It should state if the Sims is human.
 * 3) If the Sim is a ghost, with a gravestone it should be labeled ghost.
 * 4) Favorites It shoud state: Music- F, Food- F, Color- F
 * 5) Spelling It really doesn't matter, I can use both American and Britsh spellings.
 * 6) Point of View It should definatly be in third person.

Random Ranaun
Here's my input:
 * 1) Biography-
 * 2) I think it The Sims should be first, The Sims 2 should be second, and The Sims 3 should be third.
 * 3) I think it should state the what the Sim's life stage was during that time.
 * 4) Family-
 * 5) If the Sim does not have parents, it should say Unknown, not None. If the Sim is Deceased, and their entire family is Unknown, for siblings, it should say Unknown, but if they are alive, it should say None. If the Sim has a child that has said Sim listed as the only parent, then the spouse parameter should say Unknown. If the Sim is too young to have a spouse or child, those parameter's should not be included. If the Sim is old enough to have a spouse or child, those parameter's should say None.
 * 6) I think it should say (Deceased) if the Sim is deceased by the time of The Sims 2. If the relative is introduced in The Sims 3, it should say (Possibly Deceased).
 * 7) The Sims 2 is the most chronilogically recent game, so if the Sim if deceased in The Sims 2, it should say (Deceased). If they are deceased in any other Sims game, it should also say (Deceased).
 * 8) Life State-
 * 9) I always put Human. (Unless the Sim's Life State is something else.)
 * 10) If the Sim comes out at night as a ghost, it should say Ghost in the parameter. If they're grave doesn't exist, it should say Human.
 * 11) Favorites- I think it should be listed as Music: - Food: - Color:
 * 12) Spelling- I think American English should be preferred for every article, just for the means of consistency.
 * 13) Point of View- I think the Point of View should always be written in the third person.

A morris
I think that "deceased" should be dropped from relatives infoboxes, except in the case of a Sim remarrying. If it is going to be used it should be lower case in parentheses, possibly also italicized. Human has been merged with Sim and should no longer be used.

I would also like to see things removed from the infobox. It makes some pages too long and some articles are blank because everything about the Sim is in the infobox. A template could still be used to create a standard style. --a_morris (talk) 20:57, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

Based off the Results (so far)

 * 1) Biography-
 * 2) TIE- 3 people want 3, 1, 2 (timeline chronological) and 3 people want 1, 2, 3 (release chronological
 * 3) No
 * 4) Family-
 * 5) TIE- 3 people want unknown only, 3 people want unknown and none.
 * 6) Deceased is to be used
 * 7) Use if deceased in most chronologically recent game
 * 8) Life State-
 * 9) Always use Human for “regular” sims.
 * 10) Ghost only if their grave was visible at some point. If their grave is never seen, put human.
 * 11) Favorites- Categories before (Music-X, Food-X, Color-X)
 * 12) Spelling- Any spelling, but consistency throughout article
 * 13) Point of View- No first person, No second person, Yes third person.

Debate for Tied Fields
I really think that none is unnecessary, as if nothing is ever mentioned, it is clear that there aren't any. Unknown is still important because there are some sims which "popped out of nowhere," so missing parents would still be listed as unknown. As for the order of the text in their biography, it honestly makes more sense to tell their stories beginning→middle→end, not middle→end→beginning. M. H. Avril 23:50, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If another Sims game were to come out, it could perhaps reveal more about the family. For example, in the Sims 3, Simis' parents are added. So that is why I think we should included if they have siblings. As for the organization, I just think it would be more proper to list it in the order of the games release. Bella Goth
 * I don't really get what you mean about the siblings. He never had siblings and probably never will, so why use the none? It seems like a big waste of time. And I think that the simbio box on the side should go 1, 2, 3, but shouldn't the actual written story go in order? M. H. Avril 01:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with M. H. Avril that the biography/story of their life should go 3, 1, 2as it is chronological order of the sims life. --Bob Newbie is kl 15:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Appearance
In other wikis, I seem to find eye color, hair color and appearance in their Bios. In this Wiki, appearances are not described in their bio templates. Now I need what everybody thinks, should we add the appearance description on Sim Bios or not? --Bayoubash 05:24, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, that would be extremely helpful to people trying to recreate the sims, like me.--Bella Goth 22:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)Bella Goth