Forum:Power Aspiration

As I found that have Power Aspiration, someone was always againist it. The newest user that is againist it is ParanormalJ. He continously reverts Power to None. I didn't found any aspiration difference between my CAS Power Sim and those Sims. I want him to stop it until he finds any evidence that they don't have the aspiration (I won't accept no icon, or it's Nothing in SimPe!). I want to discuss about it and find the right solution. Mate1234 (talk) 13:54, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
In all honesty, Mate, we've never came to a real conclusion whether Power aspiration exists or not. Both of us were the only people who ever got into discussion about this, so there were not really a "result from the community". I wanted to revise what we discussed back in a few months ago. All I can see was that you initially made the edits, and then you wanted to keep the edits for yourself. Not wanting to further continue edit warring, I'd let you loose at that time. But now, you wouldn't let any single editor to touch these pages. You need to understand more about Assume Good Faith. These editors who changed the edits meant no harm, and in fact, who knows they were right too.

If anyone wonders, this was the original discussion about the aspiration. I hope this would bring attention so more people would actually give their opinion on this.

Ok, this is why do I think that they have that aspiration. I like experimenting with my game. I have created some Sims and gave them Power aspiration via Sim Modder. I also wanted to customize their memories with SimPe. I´m using Sim Browser to easily find those Sims (who have Power aspiration). When I clicked on Career tab, SimPe didn´t recognize their aspiration (SimPe isn´t made by Maxis, it´s made by the player, I have found that on ModTheSims), it was Nothing, just like Julius Caesar or Ron Condor. Also, if you resurrect Julius and age him back to adult, his aspiration level will usually be Cold fish, just like my Sims. And I have added Grim to my family, and he was Cold fish. So, please, stop doing this to me. Mate1234
 * When I resurrected Julius Caesar, his aspiration level was "Dirty Old Woman". Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 22:24, June 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Correct, it´s aspiration level for elders. And sims without aspiration cannot have aspiration level or lifetime wish. So, what do you think now? Mate1234
 * We really needed explanations like this all along, like how you discovered that they have the Power aspiration. Are you sure this discovery is legit? I mean, how can you tell the difference between Sims with no aspiration and Power aspiration?  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  12:28, June 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, Sims without aspiration won´t have any wants or even aspiration level, though Power Sims just have missing aspiration icon. Can I now recreate Power Sims category and put Sims with Power aspiration there? Mate1234


 * And, can you delete Sims with no aspiration category? There are 2 reasons:
 * 1. In The Sims 2 and EP-s and SP-s, there aren´t any Sims without aspiration;
 * 2. When I saw that category, I have almost threw my laptop. Mate1234


 * Settle down, because this is pretty much new finding... or just rather odd. From your finding, does it mean you've never seen any Sims with actually no aspiration? You said there aren't any Sims without aspiration, so how did you know the difference?


 * Also, let's say if those Sims with allegedly no aspiration actually has the Power aspiration. This is a little difficult to understand if you have to rephrase and edit every single Sim that they actually have that hidden aspiration. Common readers might be confused because they're more easily recognized to have "no aspiration" due to the lack of icon. I think, it's better to mention in this article that "Sims who have no icon in their aspiration, in fact, have the Power aspiration, instead of no aspiration" or something. It's like syllogism afterwards.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  12:55, June 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, Sims who have aspiration will have wants and fears related to their aspiration. And I have used SimPe to resurrect all Sims from Sims with no aspiration category. They had some wants from Popularity and Fortune. I haven´t seen any Sim with no wants or fears. What should I do then? Mate1234


 * Sims with no wants and fears have no relation to the specific aspiration. You just need to wait until the wants re-roll, by using batbox for example. It may also be possible that those Fortune and Popularity wants are common wants? What are the example wants and fears? Do the wants have the "burst" icon on some specific wants like in the image?


 * This also makes me suspect that the Power aspiration itself is the same as no aspiration at all... There has to be a distinguishable difference between these two, or they're the same.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  13:22, June 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Power aspiration rolls wants and fears from Fortune and Popularity. Read more here: Power aspiration. If you don´t trust me, here is example: resurrect Julius and spawn SimModder. First, check his asp. level, which will usually be "Dirty Old Woman". Then, with SimModder find Power aspiration and click on it. Nothing will change because he already has it. Mate1234
 * I know, you've said that. Personally, I can't really rely on that article because I'm not sure about its validity. But that's just a personal matter. Anyway, from what I understand, that almost means that either there's no Sims with no aspiration or no Sims with Power aspiration. This leads me to conclusion that "no aspiration" and "Power" are the same? Power can completely be cut to no attributes at all, don't you think?  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  14:11, June 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think that having Sims with no aspiration is impossible, or, if it´s possible, they will probably have no aspiration bar because there are no wants to fulfill. I think it´s best to edit all Sims with Power asp. and, if anyone asks me or you  to prove it, I have the answer which is true. Mate1234


 * Hmm... What makes you so sure that these Sims have the Power aspiration, instead of no aspiration? I think having no aspiration makes more sense than having a dangling cut aspiration.


 * Also, "no wants" is not related to aspiration. Sometimes, townies and NPCs also have blank wants even though they do have aspiration. Their wants will re-roll after they're made playable some time.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  17:19, June 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, when you try to give those sims power asp. via SimModder, nothing will change because they already have it. And they have aspiration level such as Cold fish, or Don Juan(plantium). Mate1234
 * I should probably note that some Sims that are said to have no aspiration in SimPE actually have the Power aspiration. However, this does not mean that OTHER Sims listed with no aspiration actually have one.
 * Example of a Sim listed in SimPE as having no aspiration but is a Power Sim:
 * Julius Caesar
 * Example of a Sim listed in SimPE as having no aspiration and this true:
 * Yves Jacquet
 * Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 02:43, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ѧüя◎ґ, I´m sorry to dissapoint you, but I have resurrected all potential ´no aspiration Sims´, and they had same case as Julius Caesar, they had asp. level, such as ˝Cold Fish˝ (adults), and ˝Dirty old woman˝ (elders), including all deceased Jacquets, so, they have Power aspiration. Mate1234
 * Seems I was mistaken. Thanks for clearing that up. Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 09:38, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Can I edit all Power Sims properly, and put them in Power Sims category? Mate1234 (talk) 11:03, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I've heard you saying the resurrected Sims having the "Cold Fish" or "Dirty Old Woman" moniker as proof of their aspiration over and over. I'm sorry, but that doesn't prove really much. It's more of an "example" because you can't tell the difference from Sims with no aspiration. You say "All Sims listed with no aspiration actually have Power aspiration". I can say "All Sims with no aspiration have no aspiration, and choosing Power aspiration with Sim Modder will unset someone's aspiration instead of the hidden aspiration, even though it looks like you set their aspiration to Power, but it is not". There's clearly no difference between Power and no aspiration.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  10:11, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * You think there is no differrence. Ok, then I can edit no asp. Sims and write that they are Power Sims (which is true, if you don´t think so, give me an example of Sim with no asp. bar or asp. level). Mate1234 (talk) 12:33, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * There, you give the same example again, and not proof.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  11:49, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * And you say that there is no difference between no asp. and Power. It´s not true. Sim with no asp. cannot have asp. level. (Family sims have Solid Provider,  etc, Romance Sims have Hopeless romantic, Love machine,etc, and so.) Then Power Sims have Cold fish, Don Juan (for plantium), etc. And give me an example of sim with no asp. level, please. Mate1234 (talk) 12:55, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm, first I agreed with you Mate1234, but Nikel's last comment is actually quite clever. What if the Power aspiration indeed changes the aspiration to no aspiration? In casse of Yves Jacquet for example, he might have the I love potatoes aspiration,who was cut and removed before the games release, leaving the Sim with no aspiration? Because he has no aspiration (like Julius Caesar it might look like he has the Power aspiration, but why can't it be the I love potatoes-aspiration we know nothing about? Just because we know more about the Power aspiration it's more likely to assume it's that aspiration, but what if they just both don't have any aspiration? Which makes them a Cold Fish or Dirty Old Lady?  Tiezel     (talk)     curious?   11:58, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I can't give an example, because I myself think they have that moniker because they have no aspiration. Who knows that "Cold Fish" might be the default moniker if there's no aspiration? We both agree that these Sims have one thing in common. We only argue either they have Power or none.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  12:07, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * This is one example for my proof.
 * 1. Resurrect Yves (or any potential no aspiration Sim).
 * 2. Look at his aspiration bar. Since he is an adult, he will usually have Cold fish level. If it is higher, it will be Hopeless romantic or Don Juan.
 * 3. Spawn SimModder and try to give him Power asp. Nothing will change because he already has it. He will still be Cold fish, Hopeless romantic or Don Juan. Mate1234 (talk) 13:07, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I get your point. One thing. Can you rebut my arguments or state why they are false instead of proving you're right? I mean, without comparing with the "Cold Fish" moniker. Maybe something like, "Having no aspiration will crash the game," instead of "Sims can't have no aspiration because they have 'Cold Fish' moniker." -  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  12:27, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) "Who knows that "Cold Fish" might be the default moniker if there's no / invalid / any more removed aspirations?"
 * 2) "Why Sims have to have aspiration, and no possibility to not have them? Having no aspiration makes more sense instead of dangling, cut aspiration"

It looks that you didn´t read my last proof''. 3. ''Nothing will change because he already has it. He will still be Cold fish, Hopeless romantic or'' Don Juan. ''Mate1234 (talk) 13:31, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, did you try removing his aspiration? So if you remove his aspiration, will it change? And you didn't state why I was wrong.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  12:38, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I used SimModder and gave him reputation asp. Then I openned him in SimPe. It was set as Reputation. Then I set it as Nothing, and there was Cold fish. I maximized his asp and he was Don Juan. Mate1234 (talk) 13:45, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * That seems legitimate... After all, I can't really defend my arguments and I can't rebut you any further. I still haven't accepted the validity of the aspiration yet, but who knows, you might be right or not, I don't know. Go ahead then.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  12:54, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Finally. Thanks a lot.  Mate1234 (talk) 13:59, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, one more thing. Please don't say "unusually," since many Sims have this aspiration... which makes it common instead of unusual. Just leave it out like "She has the Power aspiration."  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  14:52, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

 Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  14:20, September 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Waaaiiittt!!! You can't say that I don't let someont to touch the page. But ParanormalJ reverter my edits more times with explanation: Not all Sims that have missing icon are Power Sims. If he really wants to prove it, then he has to find something that differs them from Power Sims (that you can make yourself). Mate1234 (talk) 14:32, September 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * This isn't the first time you undid someone's edit on Power aspiration. One anonymous user also removed the info from two Sims, but as far as I can tell, the anon has never made any bad-faith edit. There were also some other instances, but I couldn't remember exactly who or where it happened. ParanormalJ has no bad intention of editing, so if he removed that part, he must have a reason. Continuing in edit warring is an act of self-defense, so if you really want to resolve this, I suggest you do it by discussing it here and now.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  14:36, September 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Currently, I want to discuss about this with ParanormalJ, ask why that Sims don't have Power aspiration. Let's wait until he replies. Mate1234 (talk) 14:41, September 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Mate1234. These sims DO NOT have the 'Power' aspiration. I'm very skilled at SimPe so I know what I saying when I say they do not have an aspiration, their data shows this; 0x0, that means no aspiration I use the base game only so it's possible that when other expansion/stuff packs released that the sims may have gotten aspiration levels but it's impossible that they have an aspiration this is due to the fact that some sims were shipped with missing strings in their DNA. Hope you understand. ParanormalJ (talk) 01:48, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * And did you check for Power? Where did you actually found that aspiratio instance? 07:39, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I checked the aspiration instance on 'Luc Smith' and his showed as '0x0'. I'm sorry to say but these sims have NO aspiration, just incase you're wondering, Power's aspiration symbol IS the man holding a electric bolt.ParanormalJ (talk) 09:50, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * You still don't know that Power has no in-game icon? It' s only in game files. And, where you find aspiration instance (in this case '0x0')? 10:24 September 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually yes I have seen the Power aspiration symbol through game data and I looked at the sims data file.ParanormalJ (talk) 11:17, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * But where exactly? ObjData, Catalog Description...? 13:28, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Closing up
I don't like how this discussion turned out. It ended up being a conflict between two individuals. And while the conflict seemed to be cooling down on its own, this discussion didn't make any satisfying conclusions. No one else has voiced their opinion, so there's still a chance this dispute will be brought up again in the future.

I hope that in the future, if anyone opposes against the Power aspiration, they should make it clear why they think the aspiration shouldn't be there. I've made myself clear in the past discussion, but it was just a two-on-two dispute instead of a "discussion".

As for Mate, there's a clear reason why some people remove the bits about Power aspiration in Sim articles, and I believe I've stated why. Please consider Assume Good Faith before any further edit reversion turns into an edit war. Because otherwise, you'd be considered defending your own edits. Thread is closed.  Nikel  Talk  –  Vote!  13:26, October 30, 2013 (UTC)