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Forum:Amendment to voting policies: Difference between revisions
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{{Forumheader|Community discussions|archive}}
In light of a few recent issues regarding votes on The Sims Wiki, I would like to propose the following changes to [[The Sims Wiki:Policy/Participation Policies]].
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Personally, I feel like a minimum of 5 days and a maximum of 14 days is a good benchmark. I also feel that votes should be ended early if there is clear consensus for a particular option, but I don't know what sort of minimum time, if any, should be set before doing this. I think it would best be left to the discretion of admins. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] • [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/LostInRiverview|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 05:00, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
:I don't think I've ever seen a vote need to go for longer than 5 days barring exceptional circumstances. I believe it might be a good idea to use the same rules we use for RfA's, as shown [http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/The_Sims_Wiki:Requests_for_administratorship#Stage_2_-_Discussion here]. There are a few benefits to this, namely it provides a decent time limit of 5 days with the potential for it to be extended in the case of a controversial issue. In addition, I like the idea of using this system as it would standardize voting across the wiki, as rights requests and other votes are the only two types of votes I can think of from memory. By standardizing the lengths of the two it would reduce confusion and also provide a sense of unity for lack of a better term. {{WHsig|03:42, December 28, 2014 (UTC)}}
==Vote starting discussion==
There's some disagreement on who should be allowed to initiate votes. Speaking personally, I feel we should allow all users who are eligible to vote ''(i.e. registered users with at least 1 edit on TSW)'' to also start votes. But we should also allow administrators the right to modify or cancel votes that are wholly unnecessary, unfair, badly-written, or that violate policy. In other words, administrators would serve as the enforcers, to make sure that any votes that are started are legitimate. I am personally not a fan of allowing vote creation by rollbackers but not regular users, as we have many capable users on the wiki who are not rollbackers. What does everyone else think? -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] • [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/LostInRiverview|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 05:00, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
:Yes, the administrators should serve as the enforcers and be given the right to modify or cancel votes that are unnecessary, unfair, etc.
:Yes, we should allow users that aren't rollbackers to start votes, since there are many capable users out there that aren't rollbackers. My thoughts were probably just there to support the allowances of more experienced non administrators to vote - but then we get new users that are already experienced from other wikis. I for one don't have rollback rights outside this wiki, but that doesn’t automatically make me less experienced, and more importantly it doesn’t make others less experienced as well.
:So yes, all auto-confirmed users should be allowed to start votes. -- '''[[User:C.Syde65|<font color="maroon">C.Syde</font>]]''' ([[User talk:C.Syde65|<font color="black">talk</font>]] | [[:Special:Contributions/C.Syde65|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]) 05:38, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
::Um, that should be "all registered users with at least one edit" as LiR proposed. Autoconfirmed requires the account to be at least four days old and have made at least 10 edits. Autoconfirmed status also appears to be shared across all of Wikia, so a vandal that happened to stay on a small, unmonitored wiki made 10 edits and stayed there for four days would be able to start a vote here, which is undesirable. They should have one ''local'' edit here. Unregistered users should not be allowed to vote (as it's very easy to manipulate the votes just by changing IP addresses and using proxies and all that). --I am [[User:K6ka|'''<span style="color:#0040FF">k6ka</span>''']] [[User talk:K6ka|<span style="color:#0080FF"><sup>Talk to me!</sup></span>]] [[Special:Contributions/K6ka|<span style="color:#0B4C5F"><sub>See what I have done</sub></span>]] 12:00, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
:::Of course administrators should be enforcers in votes and such. However, I feel that rollbackers and registered users should not be able to start a vote. They may be capable and this is '''not''' a trust issue, I just think that role should be for those who have "authority" on the wiki. [[User:Beds|<font color="#6B1D51">'''Beds'''</font>]] <sup>([[User_talk:Beds|<font color="#512d17">'''talk'''</font>]] - [[User_blog:Beds|<font color="#512d17">'''blog'''</font>]])</sup> 18:00, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
::::{{ec}} (slight off-topic) Experience applies to more than just editing the wiki, it also applies to interactions with the community. I have over 10,000 edits on The Sims Wiki, but I have no experience editing Wikipedia. If I were to go there I would be inexperienced with their methods even if I am a rollback/admin/bureaucrat on other wikis. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] • [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/LostInRiverview|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 18:08, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
::::(added) Also, please be sure to comment on the section above this one, regarding vote length. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] • [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/LostInRiverview|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 18:09, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
::::: @ Beds - I disagree that rollbackers and registered users shouldn't be able to start votes. I have full confidence that myself and other active non-admins can be trusted to start votes. And I don't think it should be left to those who have "authority". While not all users have the same user rights, we are all wiki editors who want to help improve it. And all users are in most circumstances, equal. So I think non-admins should be given the chance.
:::::I have some level of experience editing wikipedia, but I remember when I was inexperienced. Also I don't really have anything to say on the section above this one. All vote lengths are fine with me, for now. -- '''[[User:C.Syde65|<font color="maroon">C.Syde</font>]]''' ([[User talk:C.Syde65|<font color="black">talk</font>]] | [[:Special:Contributions/C.Syde65|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]) 21:21, December 5, 2014 (UTC)
::::::Bumping this thread from the abyss with my opinion. I think that for a user to be able to start a vote they should have at the very least one edit here and there shouldn't be any other requirements. However, I believe I may have mentioned this elsewhere in another thread but I'll say it again anyway: I believe that the user should have participated in the discussion before starting a vote. This might be my own opinion but I don't see it as a good idea for a user who hasn't been involved in a discussion to start a vote as they might not know all the facts, know the reason for the discussion or something similar. Finally, I feel that all votes should be treated the same, and, if necessary, can all be controlled by admins as said above. I'd like to make a point that if an admin makes a vote another admin doesn't agree with that the second admin would be allowed to act the same in there somewhere as well, although maybe add some sort of note about discussing it via talk pages in the event of this situation; while this will probably never happen, and as a result isn't a very high priority in my opinion at least, I feel its a good idea simply to state this to reinforce the "all users are equal" ideal we try to portray. {{WHsig|03:33, December 28, 2014 (UTC)}}
::::::::Yes, it is a good idea to state this to reinforce the "all users are equal" ideal we try to portray. I personally dislike the idea of only allowing admins to start votes, because I feel that gives the impression that admins are in charge of the wiki. The way I see it, all auto-confirmed users should be allowed to start votes, but the administrators should be the enforcers in votes etc. I know that I'm basically repeating what I've said above, so I think I'll just leave it at that...... -- '''[[User:C.Syde65|<font color="maroon">C.Syde</font>]]''' ([[User talk:C.Syde65|<font color="black">talk</font>]] | [[:Special:Contributions/C.Syde65|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]) 04:02, December 28, 2014 (UTC)
Slight change to what I said above after it was brought up on IRC: "I believe that the user should have participated in the discussion before starting a vote" wouldn't apply in certain circumstances where a neutral admin is needed to start a vote in an attempt to get consensus or kickstart a dead discussion. {{WHsig|04:10, December 28, 2014 (UTC)}}
:I think that's a good idea. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] • [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/LostInRiverview|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 18:31, January 1, 2015 (UTC)
::Agreed. [[User:Auror Andrachome|Ѧüя◎ґ]] ([[User talk:Auror Andrachome|talk]]) 22:50, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
==Vote to adopt policy==
We've discussed a lot of stuff here, and frankly it would be disappointing to see that work and effort go to waste, without an effort to ratify these ideas into policy. To that effect, I have brushed up the draft policy based on what was discussed here, and now present it for a vote.
To clarify what has changed, I present the same list I included at the top of this thread, with changes notated:
# Rename the page to The Sims Wiki:Voting policy for sake of clarity. - '''''Done'''''
# Eliminate the standard voting format listed in the policy. - '''''Done''' and reflected on the draft policy.''
# Remove the administrators/bureaucrats-only limitation on initiating votes. - ''Reflected on draft policy. No formal vote was held to determine this point, but it seems that consensus is in favor of it. Also added a point agreed-to above, limiting vote creation to neutral admins or users who were actively involved in the discussion''
# Eliminate the strict two-week duration on wiki votes, replacing it with a five day minimum vote duration. - ''Reflected on draft policy. There was no consensus regarding a specific maximum duration, but that's something that can be added on at a later date if needed''
# Prohibit the use of the Poll feature in official voting. - '''''Done''' and reflected on the draft policy.''
# Clarify and organize the page. - ''Done on the draft policy''
Overall, I think any lingering little issues can be ironed out after the main policy is adopted. And, it would be nice to finally be able to wrap up this discussion.
So, I'd like to put this matter up to a vote. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] • [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/LostInRiverview|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 00:33, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
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'''Question:''' ''Do you support adopting [http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/User:LostInRiverview/Test?oldid=655753 this draft Voting Policy] as official policy for The Sims Wiki, to replace the current [[The Sims Wiki:Voting policy|voting policy]] - yes or no?''
'''Duration:''' ''This vote will last for at least seven days. Time remaining: {{Countdown|time=00:35 18 February 2015|zone=UTC}}''
''Please cast your vote below, along with reasoning.''
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===Yes===
# '''Support''' I feel this debate has dragged on for a tad bit too long, so seeing a conclusion is the light at the end of the tunnel. So far, there are no glaring issues with the current proposal. --I am [[User:K6ka|'''<span style="color:#0040FF">k6ka</span>''']] [[User talk:K6ka|<span style="color:#0080FF"><sup>Talk to me!</sup></span>]] [[Special:Contributions/K6ka|<span style="color:#0B4C5F"><sub>See what I have done</sub></span>]] 00:37, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
# '''Support''' (obviously) - As I said above, even if the draft isn't 100% perfect, it makes a couple significant and, in my opinion, necessary changes that will ultimately make the policy better-fitting for the wiki. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] • [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/LostInRiverview|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 00:40, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
# '''Support''' - To be honest, I'm a little surprised this debate is still going. I have nothing more to say about this proposal, other than that I support it. -- '''[[User:C.Syde65|<font color="maroon">C.Syde</font>]]''' ([[User talk:C.Syde65|<font color="black">talk</font>]] | [[:Special:Contributions/C.Syde65|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]) 01:36, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
# '''Support''' I know I haven't been involved in this discussion much as I haven't really had much to say, but I have been following it. I don't see any issues with this proposal. -- [[User:Icemandeaf|Icemandeaf]] ([[User talk:Icemandeaf|talk]]) 04:22, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
# '''Support''' Looks fine to me, covers more than the last one. {{WHsig|04:46, February 11, 2015 (UTC)}}
# '''Support''' [[User:Nikel23|'''<span style="color:#007FFF; text-shadow: #ACE5EE 0 4px 4px;">Nikel</span>''']] [[User talk:Nikel23|<span style="color: #30D5C8 ; text-shadow: #00FFEF 0 4px 4px;"><sub>''Talk''</sub></span>]] <sub>–</sub> [[The Sims Wiki:Featured Media/Voting|<span style="color:red ; text-shadow:#E97451 0 4px 4px;"><sub>''Vote!''</sub></span>]] 10:42, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
#'''Support''' -- Everything seems to be good. ~ [[User:Beds|<font color="#6B1D51">'''Beds'''</font>]] <sup>([[User_talk:Beds|<font color="#512d17">'''talk'''</font>]] - [[User_blog:Beds|<font color="#512d17">'''blog'''</font>]])</sup> 17:15, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
===No===
#[[User:Auror Andrachome|Ѧüя◎ґ]] ([[User talk:Auror Andrachome|talk]]) 21:43, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
#:Auror: Why do you oppose? --I am [[User:K6ka|'''<span style="color:#0040FF">k6ka</span>''']] [[User talk:K6ka|<span style="color:#0080FF"><sup>Talk to me!</sup></span>]] [[Special:Contributions/K6ka|<span style="color:#0B4C5F"><sub>See what I have done</sub></span>]] 21:47, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
==Conclusion==
This policy was adopted a week or two ago but this thread still remains open so I'm going to be closing it for now. The new voting policy can be viewed in its entirety [[The Sims Wiki:Voting policy|here]]. Thanks to all who contributed. If someone has an issue with this policy, please create a new thread and we'll go from there. {{WHsig|10:12, March 6, 2015 (UTC)}}
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