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Forum:Blonde or Blond: Difference between revisions
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{{Forumheader|Community discussions|archive}}
{{Resolved/mini|res| The term 'blonde' should be used on pages of female Sims, and 'blond' on male Sim pages or where a gender-neutral term is necessary. However, editors should not edit a page simply for the sake of conforming to this guideline.}}
==Discussion==
It looks like British English prefers blonde for females and blond for males, whereas US English prefers blond for both genders. The [[The Sims Wiki:Manual of Style|Manual of style]] says that "it is generally acceptable to leave an article alone where the style is consistent throughout the article." I think this isn't major enough to have to be decided on a wiki-wide level, especially considering the differing styles between various versions of English - none of which are correct or incorrect. It would be relatively painless to make the {{t|Sim}} and related templates accept both spellings of the word.
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::No, I'm proposing that we don't change anything except the category name. But, that's just my suggestion. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] ~ [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]]</sup>''' 01:44, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
::::Do we change it on the template for each gender? [[User:Joey.eyeball|Joey.eyeball]] ([[User talk:Joey.eyeball|talk]]) 01:47, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
:::::I don't understand what you mean. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] ~ [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]]</sup>''' 03:56, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
:::::::I mean on Sim articles and on [[Template:Sim|this]] template. [[User:Joey.eyeball|Joey.eyeball]] ([[User talk:Joey.eyeball|talk]]) 03:58, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
::::::::In terms of a possible category name change, I'd be fine with using blond or blonde. If need be, the word usage of the hair color in the games can be taken into account. [[User:Auror Andrachome|Ѧüя◎ґ]] ([[User talk:Auror Andrachome|talk]]) 05:33, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm confused. I've always thought "blonde" is the gender-neutral term all along. Currently, we're using [[:Category:Blondes]] for Sims with blonde hair. I've never argued with it because I thought "blonde" is the gender-neutral term. If we are to agree to use "blond" as the gender-neutral term, we could as well change the category for those Sims into ''Category:Blonds''.
:::::::::I'm not quite sure what you asked about the template either, Joey. If you're looking for the categorization template for blonde Sims, [[Template:GetAppearanceCat]] is the correct template. Both terms "blond" and "blonde" categorize Sims to ''Category:Blondes''. We can make a minor tweak to the template to change the categories, while agreeing both usages of terms are acceptable. [[User:Nikel23|'''<span style="color:#007FFF; text-shadow: #ACE5EE 0 4px 4px;">Nikel</span>''']] [[User talk:Nikel23|<span style="color: #30D5C8 ; text-shadow: #00FFEF 0 4px 4px;"><sub>''Talk''</sub></span>]] <sub>–</sub> [[The Sims Wiki:Featured Media/Voting|<span style="color:red ; text-shadow:#E97451 0 4px 4px;"><sub>''Vote!''</sub></span>]] 05:51, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
<small>(Reset indent)</small>The point I was making was that we don't need to go around to all the articles and edit them to make them match one spelling choice or the other, since they're both technically correct. As I said, the only thing I'd change would be the category. As Nikel said, that would be as easy as tweaking the template. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] ~ [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]]</sup>''' 05:53, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
: I don't like that template. But I'm still confused about what are we doing. [[User:Joey.eyeball|Joey.eyeball]] ([[User talk:Joey.eyeball|talk]]) 05:56, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
::Right now, we're discussing what we're doing. Then we'll do it. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] ~ [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]]</sup>''' 06:01, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
::::Can you tell me what is happening then? [[User:Joey.eyeball|Joey.eyeball]] ([[User talk:Joey.eyeball|talk]]) 06:04, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
:::::Well, at the moment we're waiting for more people to weigh in on the subject. After that point we'll figure out what the community has decided, then implement it. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] ~ [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]]</sup>''' 06:20, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
Since I think I "started" this discussion, I guess I'd better have my say. I'd agree to changing the category name from ''Blondes'' to ''Blonds'' as that is gender neutral. But, I'm not sure about what to do for the descriptions for Sim pages. Personally, I would prefer to use blonde for females and blond for males, but I believe the wiki uses (or, at least, prefers) US English for consistency between articles, and the US use blond for males and females. ~ [[User:Waikikamukow|<font color="6a2286">Waikikamukow</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Waikikamukow|<font color="00b0f4">Anyone wanna chat?</font>]])</small> 06:26, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
: I actually liked things the way they were. Although, I am the type of person who despises change. [[User:Joey.eyeball|Joey.eyeball]] ([[User talk:Joey.eyeball|talk]]) 06:29, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
:: The MoS does also state that it's not important that all articles follow the same exact spelling style, only that it be consistent within the article itself.
::As an aside, I'd suggest we also change the category to Category:Blond-haired Sims (or Category:Blonde-haired Sims). Apparently using the term 'blondes' can be offensive to some people, since referring to someone as a blonde is considered by some to be a negative reference to the [[Wikipedia:Blonde stereotype|"dumb blonde" stereotype]]. Not to mention, renaming it would bring it into line with our other category names, like Category:Brown-haired Sims, Category:Black-haired Sims, etc. Just some more food for thought. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] ~ [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]]</sup>''' 06:35, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
I don't mind renaming the category name as it's not really difficult for that. Just sayin' here, the category name for Sims with red hair is called [[:Category:Redheads]]. Perhaps that needs to be changed too.
I'm not sure which part you're confused about, Joey. Perhaps there's a misinterpretation of some sort in this discussion you found? Maybe you could clarify what you're confused about, please. Like, what did you not like from the template, actually? That template is only used for automatic categorization. Besides, I don't really see if you actually brought up any problems at the top of the discussion page...
What are the choices we have for the outcome of this discussion?
*We enforce the use of term "blond" for male and "blonde" for female, and "blond" for gender-neutral context.
*We enforce the use of term "blond" for both genders.
*We're inclined to use both terms "blond" and "blonde" depending on the gender, but do not need to enforce them. "Blond" is used for gender-neutral context.
*No enforcement; depends on the article. If the article consistently uses both terms, we use both terms in that article. If the article only use "blond", we only use "blond".
[[User:Nikel23|'''<span style="color:#007FFF; text-shadow: #ACE5EE 0 4px 4px;">Nikel</span>''']] [[User talk:Nikel23|<span style="color: #30D5C8 ; text-shadow: #00FFEF 0 4px 4px;"><sub>''Talk''</sub></span>]] <sub>–</sub> [[The Sims Wiki:Featured Media/Voting|<span style="color:red ; text-shadow:#E97451 0 4px 4px;"><sub>''Vote!''</sub></span>]] 14:15, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
:I am in favor of making the category names consistent; therefore Category:Blond(e)-haired Sims and Category:Red-haired Sims. As for spelling, people are going to use both, and usage will likely be inconsistent. It may be best to "cooperate with the inevitable" and not enforce either one beyond maintaining consistent usage within articles. [[User:Dharden|Dharden]] ([[User_talk:Dharden|talk]]) 20:45, December 21, 2013 (UTC)
::I say we use "blond" for males and "blonde" for females, and "blond" for both genders term. I think that sounds good. [[User:Joey.eyeball|Joey.eyeball]] ([[User talk:Joey.eyeball|talk]]) 05:16, December 22, 2013 (UTC)
:::I'm with Joey, but I don't want to enforce the usage. I think it's better to use what seems right in the context. [[User:Nikel23|'''<span style="color:#007FFF; text-shadow: #ACE5EE 0 4px 4px;">Nikel</span>''']] [[User talk:Nikel23|<span style="color: #30D5C8 ; text-shadow: #00FFEF 0 4px 4px;"><sub>''Talk''</sub></span>]] <sub>–</sub> [[The Sims Wiki:Featured Media/Voting|<span style="color:red ; text-shadow:#E97451 0 4px 4px;"><sub>''Vote!''</sub></span>]] 07:26, December 22, 2013 (UTC)
:::::I just realised something. Blonde is used for [[Chemistry|chemistry]] in both genders, so I think we should follow that. [[User:Joey.eyeball|Joey.eyeball]] ([[User talk:Joey.eyeball|talk]]) 02:09, December 25, 2013 (UTC)
::::::I support Nikel's third point above - Using the correct term based on gender, but not going out of our way to make the changes on each article; this is what [[TSW:MOS]] tells us to do anyways. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] ~ [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]]</sup>''' 15:23, December 29, 2013 (UTC)
Nikel's third point seems to be the most straightforward. Honestly, I don't think it matters too much either way. {{LabSig}} 04:01, December 31, 2013 (UTC)
:I would agree to using "blonde" for females and "blond" for males and gender-neutral aspects, but I also wouldn't enforce it harshly. I don't think this issue is bad enough that we have to regulate and comply with the separate spellings harshly. ~ [[User:Waikikamukow|<font color="6a2286">Waikikamukow</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Waikikamukow|<font color="00b0f4">Anyone wanna chat?</font>]])</small> 00:34, January 1, 2014 (UTC)
==Conclusion==
It seems that the general opinion here is towards using "blonde" or "blond" depending on context, while not heavily enforcing this guideline. To that end, editors should not find it necessary to edit articles about blond(e)-haired Sims simply to bring them in line with this guideline. Since this is a style guideline, I'll make a note of this decision on the [[The Sims Wiki:Manual of Style|MoS]] and a link to this discussion for posterity. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<font color="navy">LostInRiverview</font>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] ~ [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]]</sup>''' 02:26, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
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