Forum:Migrating from FANDOM to a new host: Difference between revisions
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::::::: They're still tired of how you run this website, you know. It's almost as if you're trying to emulate Amino's bad reputation. [[User:Matthew Cenance|Matthew Cenance]] ([[User:Matthew Cenance|talk]]) 21:23, March 20, 2019 (UTC) |
::::::: They're still tired of how you run this website, you know. It's almost as if you're trying to emulate Amino's bad reputation. [[User:Matthew Cenance|Matthew Cenance]] ([[User:Matthew Cenance|talk]]) 21:23, March 20, 2019 (UTC) |
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::::::: I've been here for about 7-8 weeks. You've yet to see what I can do :) - [[User:MisterWoodhouse|MisterWoodhouse]] ([[User talk:MisterWoodhouse|talk]]) 15:50, March 21, 2019 (UTC) |
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I figured I'd weigh in here as well. |
I figured I'd weigh in here as well. |
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First, I want to thank you, MisterWoodhouse, for your willingness to talk with us regarding the grievances spelled out above. I understand that you are not necessarily in the position to immediately address 100% of what is listed (and I can appreciate that, as Lost Labyrinth above said, it's impossible to please everybody) but the fact that you're willing to engage in a dialogue and not just dictate what is and will be, gives me some measure of comfort. I also want you to understand that (and I'm sure I speak for everyone here) I want to hear you and communicate with you in good faith, as long as you are willing to do the same. Please understand that so much of the anger that seems to jump out of what is written above is not directed at you personally; it is anger born of frustration and a feeling of hopeless futility, over years and years of top-down decision-making by people who do not seem to understand or do not accept the fact that each wiki community is different and wants different things from their host. These fires have been burning for quite a long time, and the whole subject is a pretty emotional one for many of us who have sunk ''literally years'' into building this project (for instance, this year marks my 10th anniversary editing The Sims Wiki). I think it only makes sense that we would be angry, but again I want you to know that we're not angry at you. |
First, I want to thank you, MisterWoodhouse, for your willingness to talk with us regarding the grievances spelled out above. I understand that you are not necessarily in the position to immediately address 100% of what is listed (and I can appreciate that, as Lost Labyrinth above said, it's impossible to please everybody) but the fact that you're willing to engage in a dialogue and not just dictate what is and will be, gives me some measure of comfort. I also want you to understand that (and I'm sure I speak for everyone here) I want to hear you and communicate with you in good faith, as long as you are willing to do the same. Please understand that so much of the anger that seems to jump out of what is written above is not directed at you personally; it is anger born of frustration and a feeling of hopeless futility, over years and years of top-down decision-making by people who do not seem to understand or do not accept the fact that each wiki community is different and wants different things from their host. These fires have been burning for quite a long time, and the whole subject is a pretty emotional one for many of us who have sunk ''literally years'' into building this project (for instance, this year marks my 10th anniversary editing The Sims Wiki). I think it only makes sense that we would be angry, but again I want you to know that we're not angry at you. |
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A big problem we as a community have had is that there are so few members of staff who seem to be able to act as you are acting. We on a local wiki level (and this applies to most wikis, not just TSW) only become aware of corporate-level ideas once staff as a whole have already decided on a course of action, so response from staff in the past has tended to be of the "we hear your concerns, but we're doing it anyways," variety, which despite assurances to the contrary, does little to convince us that staff is actually hearing us. For what it's worth, I don't interact with staff on a regular basis, but the interactions I've had with individual members has for the most part been positive or, at the very least, diplomatic. But at the same time, staff members are not regular contributors to on-wiki dialogue; most staff contact tends to be between a single administrator and a single member of staff via Special:Contact. On the occasions when staff have tried to start discussions or participate in discussions on The Sims Wiki, they demonstrate how little they understand our community: posting discussions in the wrong locations; directing questions that require community consensus to individual administrators instead; Expecting an administrator to take unilateral action on a particular proposal, when said proposals require at the very least a community dialogue, if not outright consensus. This again goes back to the top-down operating style that staff tends to operate by, and a lack of understanding the unique properties of individual communities under the Wikia/FANDOM umbrella. |
A big problem we as a community have had is that there are so few members of staff who seem to be able to act as you are acting. We on a local wiki level (and this applies to most wikis, not just TSW) only become aware of corporate-level ideas once staff as a whole have already decided on a course of action, so response from staff in the past has tended to be of the "we hear your concerns, but we're doing it anyways," variety, which despite assurances to the contrary, does little to convince us that staff is actually hearing us. For what it's worth, I don't interact with staff on a regular basis, but the interactions I've had with individual members has for the most part been positive or, at the very least, diplomatic. But at the same time, staff members are not regular contributors to on-wiki dialogue; most staff contact tends to be between a single administrator and a single member of staff via Special:Contact. On the occasions when staff have tried to start discussions or participate in discussions on The Sims Wiki, they demonstrate how little they understand our community: posting discussions in the wrong locations; directing questions that require community consensus to individual administrators instead; Expecting an administrator to take unilateral action on a particular proposal, when said proposals require at the very least a community dialogue, if not outright consensus. This again goes back to the top-down operating style that staff tends to operate by, and a lack of understanding the unique properties of individual communities under the Wikia/FANDOM umbrella. |
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I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time bemoaning the various changes that have taken place on this site in the last 10 years. I think the people above raise very valid points and grievances. I could add a few to the pile: the locking of MediaWiki page editing to local admins; the overzealous push to "mobile"-ize wikis, often to the detriment of the wiki's look and feel on traditional desktop/laptop screens... but again, I don't want to pile on the complaints. Bottom line, I understand that businesses and websites need to evolve in order to survive. I understand that Wikia/FANDOM is a for-profit operation and relies on ad revenue to survive. I understand that nothing that Wikia/FANDOM does will ever satisfy everybody. And I understand that there are occasions when staff must take unilateral action or implement changes for the good of the whole website, even if such actions/changes work to the detriment of local communities. |
I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time bemoaning the various changes that have taken place on this site in the last 10 years. I think the people above raise very valid points and grievances. I could add a few to the pile: the locking of MediaWiki page editing to local admins; the overzealous push to "mobile"-ize wikis, often to the detriment of the wiki's look and feel on traditional desktop/laptop screens... but again, I don't want to pile on the complaints. Bottom line, I understand that businesses and websites need to evolve in order to survive. I understand that Wikia/FANDOM is a for-profit operation and relies on ad revenue to survive. I understand that nothing that Wikia/FANDOM does will ever satisfy everybody. And I understand that there are occasions when staff must take unilateral action or implement changes for the good of the whole website, even if such actions/changes work to the detriment of local communities. |
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The problem is that Wikia treats its individual communities less like ''volunteer partners'', and more like ''property.'' Wikia seems to forget that '''it is nothing without its wiki communities.'''. We are not just little subsets of a larger website; we are thousands of autonomous, industrious communities who ''want to see our wikis thrive, and want to see our host thrive, too.'' All the editors here are unpaid, and contribute and collaborate out of a shared love of the subject matter and a love of the community we've created. But Wikia doesn't see this; it only sees subsets of its larger domain, there only to generate ad revenue and to create new content for free. Eventually, communities like The Sims Wiki will be fed up with the status quo and they will splinter off, either with or without Wikia's approval. The end result of that will be almost certainly be ''a weaker community and a weaker Wikia.'' Wikia does not have enough staff - could never hire enough staff - to maintain the thousands of wikis it hosts if all the volunteer editors decided to jump ship. Wikia needs us. We don't need Wikia. |
The problem is that Wikia treats its individual communities less like ''volunteer partners'', and more like ''property.'' Wikia seems to forget that '''it is nothing without its wiki communities.'''. We are not just little subsets of a larger website; we are thousands of autonomous, industrious communities who ''want to see our wikis thrive, and want to see our host thrive, too.'' All the editors here are unpaid, and contribute and collaborate out of a shared love of the subject matter and a love of the community we've created. But Wikia doesn't see this; it only sees subsets of its larger domain, there only to generate ad revenue and to create new content for free. Eventually, communities like The Sims Wiki will be fed up with the status quo and they will splinter off, either with or without Wikia's approval. The end result of that will be almost certainly be ''a weaker community and a weaker Wikia.'' Wikia does not have enough staff - could never hire enough staff - to maintain the thousands of wikis it hosts if all the volunteer editors decided to jump ship. Wikia needs us. We don't need Wikia. |
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