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Talk:Capp family: Difference between revisions
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:::::::::::::::So, you believe that my interpretation is unrealistic, because the majority says so. Fine. I think you should have said that earlier. One big problem of democracy is tyranny of the masses, anyway. There is no rhyme or reason. All it matters is that majority rules. [[Special:Contributions/50.4.236.254|50.4.236.254]] ([[User talk:50.4.236.254|talk]]) 01:45, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Sighs. I'm sorry if you see it from that perspective. ― <span style="font-family:'Constantia'; font-weight:bold; font-size:108%;">[[User:C.Syde65|<font color="maroon">C.Syde</font>]]</span> <span style="font-family:'Adobe Garamond Pro'; font-size:108%;">([[User talk:C.Syde65|<font color="black">talk</font>]] | [[:Special:Contributions/C.Syde65|<font color="black">contribs</font>]])</span> 01:59, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
{{od|:::::::::::::::::}} This place is f***ed up, controlled by admins and bureaucrats that listen only to the majority's opinion just because it's the majority. If one browses the History, then one can find that the Inheritance is added way back when Player Stories were also added. Of course, that was obviously subjective, so Player Stories were removed. But Inheritance remained on there, because people thought that it was "realistic". No, it's not realistic. In real life, there is male primogeniture. In the Sims 2, the mirror image of male primogeniture is female primogeniture, and it is assumed that Goneril would be heir because of female primogeniture regardless of any ties to Shakespeare. Shakespeare is irrelevant, because it's considered extraneous detail. But female primogenture is extrapolated to property, even though only the last name is kept, and residential property can't be owned by a single Sim; it can only be owned by a family/household. Nope, it's just cherry-picking which parts to follow. If that's what you want, then have at it! [[Special:Contributions/50.4.236.254|50.4.236.254]] ([[User talk:50.4.236.254|talk]]) 02:01, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
:I must add that I once did edit an earlier version of the Capp/Monty articles. The articles originally used the terms "matriarchal" and "patriarchal". But I changed the terms to reflect the game's matrilineal and patrilineal surnames, because matrilinearity/patrilinearity just means by the female or male line. It suggests nothing of property rights and inheritance. Nowadays, the Inheritance section pops in, as if it undos my entire edit and misunderstands my intention. [[Special:Contributions/50.4.236.254|50.4.236.254]] ([[User talk:50.4.236.254|talk]]) 02:05, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
::It's not like that at all, nor is it controlled by administrators and bureaucrats that only listen to the majority's opinion. I'm not standing here right now as an admin. I may be an admin, but I just took the same approach that I would have done as a non-admin. And player stories haven't been removed fully. They've been superseded by fanon. Also would you please not cuss on discussion pages? Profanity isn't allowed on discussion pages, even if it's censored. ― <span style="font-family:'Constantia'; font-weight:bold; font-size:108%;">[[User:C.Syde65|<font color="maroon">C.Syde</font>]]</span> <span style="font-family:'Adobe Garamond Pro'; font-size:108%;">([[User talk:C.Syde65|<font color="black">talk</font>]] | [[:Special:Contributions/C.Syde65|<font color="black">contribs</font>]])</span> 02:12, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
:::But you still agree with the majority opinion, and you can probably use your power to keep the page. So, if I attempt to change it or delete it repeatedly, then you will probably just block me out. So... majority rules. While it is true that there is fanon, the old SimsWiki actually allowed Player Stories to be posted right on its pages. Now, the SimsWiki only talks about canon, and is extremely strict about it. The F-word, by the way, was self-censored. I know I couldn't print the F-word, so I used asterisks instead to represent the F-word, because only the F-word was an accurate expression of how I felt about all this. Other words are too polite, and well, I just didn't want to be polite with unreasonable folks.
:::On December 29, 2008''', '''[http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/92.240.36.205 <u>92.240.36.205</u>] made this [http://sims.wikia.com/index.php?title=Capp_family&diff=20695&oldid=19761 edit] . On January 17, 2009''', '''I, [http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/75.60.210.80 <u>75.60.210.80</u>], made this [http://sims.wikia.com/index.php?title=Capp_family&diff=23087&oldid=21860 edit] . My edits and vocabulary remained to this day, but at the time, I probably didn't care much of the Line of Succession or completely glossed over the Goneril Capp part. Had I deleted the Inheritance section at the time, I wouldn't have dealt with people like you.
:::I'm out of here. This is a waste of my time. Do whatever you want. It's just a Sims game, anyway. And this is just a SimsWiki. Have a good day,
:::[[Special:Contributions/50.4.236.254|50.4.236.254]] ([[User talk:50.4.236.254|talk]]) 02:51, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
::::I don't think the 'Inheritance' section is meant to be taken literally. And, of course, players are free to change the story direction of Veronaville. [[User:Auror Andrachome|Ѧüя◎ґ]] ([[User talk:Auror Andrachome|talk]]) 03:08, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
:::::I could use my power to keep the page on this wiki. You're right. But doing so would be abuse of power, and if I repeatedly abused my rights, I would be demoted. So abusing my rights would not be beneficial for me, since I wouldn't really gain anything personally as a result. I would just lose the rights that I worked so hard to get, which I worked towards in order to help the wiki and the community in areas that I wouldn't have been able to do as a non-admin. Also abusing my rights for my own personal benefit would go against the reasons I wanted the rights in the first place. My own benefit is one thing but if it's frowned upon by everyone else, then I don't see how that can be called a benefit.
:::::I'm not sure how I'm being unreasonable, since I initially agreed that it was best to just leave the information off the page if no one could agree on the way it was written. I did listen to opinions on both sides and just went with which one I agreed with, which was what the majority also seemed to agree with. If I felt myself the minority, I would have respectfully allowed myself to be outvoted, and if I really wasn't happy with the outcome, then I would just have copied the content and pasted my own version of it somewhere where it wouldn't be challenged, edited, or removed.
:::::The Sims Wiki may seem stricter nowadays but that's probably because the wiki is bigger with more edits, more pages, and more users, so there needed to be some restrictions put in place. And I don't see why using a censored word was really necessary, since it shouldn't really matter how you're feeling. It's still not right to use them, which probably explains why certain filters preventing certain profanity words were setup, long story short. ― <span style="font-family:'Constantia'; font-weight:bold; font-size:108%;">[[User:C.Syde65|<font color="maroon">C.Syde</font>]]</span> <span style="font-family:'Adobe Garamond Pro'; font-size:108%;">([[User talk:C.Syde65|<font color="black">talk</font>]] | [[:Special:Contributions/C.Syde65|<font color="black">contribs</font>]])</span> 03:42, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
::::::I do quite like the last change made to the page, I am not sure if it's the perfect way of saying it, but what it says now makes sense (to me at least), hope both parties are satisfied with this change now :) [[User:DeSims|<b><span style="font-family:calibri"><span style="color:#9d2628">DeSims</span></span></b>]] [[User_talk:DeSims|<span style="font-family:calibri"><span style="color:#804e26"><sup>(talk)</sup></span></span>]] 22:14, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not sure if it's the perfect way of saying it either, but I do quite like it. I hope both parties are satisfied with the changes that have been made now! :D ― <span style="font-family:'Constantia'; font-weight:bold; font-size:108%;">[[User:C.Syde65|<font color="maroon">C.Syde</font>]]</span> <span style="font-family:'Adobe Garamond Pro'; font-size:108%;">([[User talk:C.Syde65|<font color="black">talk</font>]] | [[:Special:Contributions/C.Syde65|<font color="black">contribs</font>]])</span> 22:17, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
::::::::I made that change, because we have to make a compromise. I disagree with the notion of letting something be one or the other, when both parties are correct. I understand the point of C.Syde65 (that the original form should be kept), but I disagree with the idea that it should be kept ''exactly''. Also, C.Syde65 disagrees with my interpretation; I have to admit that ''that'' is a player's interpretation of what goes on. So, I've decided to drop it. In the edit and the one on the Monty family page, I want to address a couple of things: (1) that matrilinearity/patrilinearity, which can be observed by the family names, is different from matriarchy/patriarchy, which has more to do with power; and (2) I want to drop the terms "House of Capp" and "House of Monty". Those are great for storytelling, but in-game, there are just "Monty family" and "Capp family"; and (3) I want to describe exactly which parts are known and which parts are interpreted, along with the assumptions. That said, I don't strive for perfection. As long as something is good enough and gets the point across while taking the good out of diametrically opposing sides, I think it should be accepted. [[Special:Contributions/50.4.236.254|50.4.236.254]] ([[User talk:50.4.236.254|talk]]) 23:38, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::For those who want to keep this change, say KEEP. For those who want to reject this change, say REJECT. [[Special:Contributions/50.4.236.254|50.4.236.254]] ([[User talk:50.4.236.254|talk]]) 23:38, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
::::::::: '''KEEP'''. It is concise and precise. [[Special:Contributions/50.4.236.254|50.4.236.254]] ([[User talk:50.4.236.254|talk]]) 23:38, July 3, 2017 (UTC)
{{od|:::::::::}} I don't really wanna start another fight here, but why are the Capp & Monty family not considered matriarchal/patriarchal? As far as I know they fit the term better than they do as only matrilineal/patrilineal. [[User:DeSims|<b><span style="font-family:calibri"><span style="color:#9d2628">DeSims</span></span></b>]] [[User_talk:DeSims|<span style="font-family:calibri"><span style="color:#804e26"><sup>(talk)</sup></span></span>]] 09:34, July 4, 2017 (UTC)
:I have no idea to be honest. That's a very good question. ― <span style="font-family:'Constantia'; font-weight:bold; font-size:108%;">[[User:C.Syde65|<font color="maroon">C.Syde</font>]]</span> <span style="font-family:'Adobe Garamond Pro'; font-size:108%;">([[User talk:C.Syde65|<font color="black">talk</font>]] | [[:Special:Contributions/C.Syde65|<font color="black">contribs</font>]])</span> 09:36, July 4, 2017 (UTC)
:: The only evidence we have is that the family tree follows the male line or female line. Just because something follows the male or female line doesn't mean it provides power to one gender. In real life, many societies have some form of matrilinearity or matrifocality, but the practice does not eliminate the male power. In contrast, many patriarchal societies have patrilinearity and patrifocality. There is no female equivalent for patriarchy in the real world. Even today, in Western and Eastern cultures, the family names are passed down from father to son. Whether authority in the family is also passed down from father to son is another question. It is possible that, because the Capps and Montys are wearing modern clothes, the Capps and Montys have gone through a period of feminism, and thus, the head of household is eliminated, while the practice of matrilinearity/patrilinearity is kept for record-keeping and family tradition. There are really just too many assumptions in matriarchy/patriarchy, so I vote for matrilinearity/patrilinearity, because that's all we can assume from the family trees. [[Special:Contributions/50.4.236.254|50.4.236.254]] ([[User talk:50.4.236.254|talk]]) 12:04, July 4, 2017 (UTC)
:: I once created a family that just happened to be matrilineal on the English Tudor side of Veronaville. I just made a male adult Sim, a female adult Sim, an elderly female Sim, and a toddler female Sim. The male and female adults were matched together. The female elder became the female adult's mother. I moved the family into a Tudor-style house. I didn't really create the family to be matriarchal, but looking back, I regard them as a matrilineal family. Though, matrilinearity wasn't my intention either. I just created the family as a family. That said, it is possible that Maxis just made the Capp family matrilineal to show that its family traditions, if the player wants to play it that way, are opposed to the Monty family traditions. If the player pays attention to the last name, it is very hard to marry a Capp and a Monty together. If the player just plays the game without any regard to last names, then it doesn't matter if the families are matrilineal/patrilineal, let alone matriarchal/patriarchal. [[Special:Contributions/50.4.236.254|50.4.236.254]] ([[User talk:50.4.236.254|talk]]) 13:55, July 4, 2017 (UTC)
:::Alright, I hear what you're saying and not I am not disagreeing but just wondering; aren't the familybios implying that authority/property/power is passed on to another generation though (e.g. Juliette & Romeo)? Or is this too much of a stretch to assume? [[User:DeSims|<b><span style="font-family:calibri"><span style="color:#9d2628">DeSims</span></span></b>]] [[User_talk:DeSims|<span style="font-family:calibri"><span style="color:#804e26"><sup>(talk)</sup></span></span>]] 16:20, July 4, 2017 (UTC)
:::: I think some interpretation should be allowed, but it should be recognized as an interpretation, not as canon. It is possible to have Romeo and Juliette be the heirs of their families by letting them have a portion of the inheritance or all the inheritance. There should be multiple allowed interpretations. One is that Juliette is the heiress, because of Cordelia is the favorite one. Another interpretation is that Maxis has messed up the birth order, not intending that the players would treat the birth order so seriously. Another interpretation is that Juliette is an heiress, but not THE heiress, meaning that Hermia and Tybalt also get their share of inheritance. There is no House of Capp/Monty/Summerdream. There are only Summerdream/Capp/Monty families with player-created inheritance patterns. [[Special:Contributions/50.4.236.254|50.4.236.254]] ([[User talk:50.4.236.254|talk]]) 18:44, July 4, 2017 (UTC)
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