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Forum:Merging/Separating pages for Sims that appear in multiple games: Difference between revisions
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{{Forumheader|Community discussions|archive}}This is an issue that has been addressed many times by different people on various talk pages but it's never been resolved so I'm making this thread in the hopes that some sort of consensus can be found. I know Maxis/EA have never been very consistent when it comes to maintaining an official canon or a timeline but that doesn't mean this Wiki can't have consistent guidelines.
1. A lot of Sims from previous games have reappeared in ''The Sims 4'' and for most of them the new information was added to the existing pages. This is true for the [[Goth]]s, the [[Landgraab]]s, the [[Caliente]]s, and [[Don Lothario]], as well as the [[Newbie family]], the [[Pleasant]]s, and the [[Grunt]]s. However, there are three noteable exceptions: [[Dustin Broke]], [[Dirk Dreamer]], and [[Holly Alto]] have seperate pages for ''The Sims 4''. Shouldn't they be merged with the original pages? Especially since the articles are all very short and it would be consistent with the approach that has been taken with all the other returning Sims.
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:This idea seems worth considering imo. I quite like how the MySims Wiki handles this issue but I don't know if it's hard to do. —<span style="font-family:'Georgia'; font-weight:bold;">[[User:Gvaudoin|<font color="black">Gvaudoin</font>]]</span> [[User talk:Gvaudoin|💬]] 17:53, June 9, 2019 (UTC)
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I have been thinking about it for a bit recently, and I have actually changed my mind on what I said earlier. It might be interesting to look into seperating Sim pages either by era (all The Sims 1 + consoles, TS2,TSS + consoles etc.) or by game. Infoboxes tent to make pages really long while actual text on that page doesn't fill the page at all. I'm thinking of wikis/fandoms like ''[[w:c:walkingdead:The_Walking_Dead_Wiki|The Walking Dead Wiki]]'' where they have seperate pages for the same people, but one is for the comics, one is for the tv series, one is for the video game, etc. I feel like this might be valuable for some Sims too, especially since the The Sims 4 universe shakes some things up. This would also solve A LOT of "are these Sims/families the same Sim/family or not"-problems. Thoughts? [[User:DeSims|<b><span style="font-family:Calibri"><span style="color:#00ac35"><span style="font-size:23px">D</span>e</span><span style="font-size:19px"><span style="color:#0075ac"><span style="font-size:23px">S</span><span style="font-size:19px">ims</span></span></span></span></b>]] [[User_talk:DeSims|<span style="font-family:Papyrus"><span style="color:#0075ac"><sup><small>(talk)</small></sup></span></span>]] 20:48, June 10, 2019 (UTC)
:I think that's a really great idea. If we have separate pages for the Get Famous versions of Dustin Broke, Holly Alto, and Dirk Dreamer, I see no reason why all Sims can't also have pages separated by game; even if they are obviously intended to be the same Sim.
:Another reason I think this is because, as Gvaudoin pointed out, the timeline of the first three Sims games has countless inconsistencies; if you ask me, they could very well all be an "alternate universe" from each other. I really don't understand why TS4 is considered a special case. [[User:Mariaw|Mariaw]] ([[User talk:Mariaw|talk]]) 23:21, June 10, 2019 (UTC)
::I'd like to look at this idea from a pro/con angle.
::;Pros to separating by game
::*''Categories become more relevant and more useful.'' If a Sim has biographical details that contradict between two games, currently that Sim is placed into both categories. Splitting Sim pages by game would eliminate this contradiction, meaning that the Sim pages that appear in categories would be fully accurate.
::*''Written details more closely tie into the infobox.'' Presently on many articles, the written text of the article doesn't visually align with the details in the infobox. Not to mention, our article text and infoboxes run out-of-order from each other, since our practice is to put TS3 information first in the written text (since TS3 is meant to be a prequel, and the article text is meant to be written in in-universe chronological order).
::*''It solves the TS4 problem.'' That is, after all, the whole crux of this discussion anyways.
::;Cons to separating by game
::*''Many, many new articles.'' Having more articles isn't by itself a bad thing, but consider that creating all these articles and curating content would take time and volunteer resources.
::*''Separating page histories would be difficult (if not impossible).'' Standards mandate that we must attribute edits to the proper editor through the [[Help:Page history|page history]]. If we end up splitting articles, it makes it difficult to ensure that all editors continue to have proper attribution, since one person's edits might be spread across multiple different pages. It may not be possible to do a clean split of the page history, since a single person may have edited information about different games all within the same single edit to the page.
::*''Wiki links would need serious updating.'' Right now, if I link to [[Bella Goth]], it pulls up her full biography. If we go through with this split, then every page that references her in regards to a specific game will have to be updated to link to the newly-split article. We'd also likely need to set up disambiguation pages for any Sim that appears in more than one title.
::*''Sim pages would need to be updated if the Sim is re-introduced in later games.'' Right now, if a Sim that has up to now only appeared in one game ends up appearing in a second game, we simply edit the existing article to include information about their new appearance. Under this proposal, we would have to rename the original article and create a new article for the Sim's new appearance (also again running into problems with the point above).
::I don't know that this list of pros/cons is conclusive, it's just what occurs to me upon thinking about it. I'm not sure where I land on this idea. Ultimately, it is *a solution* to this long-standing issue, but I'm not sure that it is the *best solution*. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<span style="color:navy;">LostInRiverview</span>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] · [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]] · [[Special:Contributions/LostInRiverview|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 01:26, June 11, 2019 (UTC)
:::I like your list LiR, and what I can conclude of it is that having seperate pages would probably create a lot of clearity and a better wiki, but will be a hell of a job; mostly adding a lot of new pages. Although it might create a bit more chaos while in the process I do think in the end it will result in a clearer wiki than it is now. We also wouldn't have to fix inconsitencies with game orders (is TS3 above TS or TS2, is TS before TS console or not, etc.) The same Sim (or the Sim with the same name) will be mentioned on the page (eg: ''for Bella Goth in [[The Sims 4]], see [[Bella Goth (The Sims 4)]]'' or if it isn't sure a Sim with the same name is the same Sim or not: ''for the Sim with the same name in [[The Sims 4]], see [[Holly Alto (The Sims 4: Get Famous)]]''. This is technically something that's not new and has been done before (like me example with Holly, that 'issue' was just never resolved, or Sims with the same name in ''The Sims 2''. There could be a [[Bella Goth (disambiguation)]] page made, or simply a [[Bella Goth]] page with a list of all the Bellas (or both).
:::I wouldn't know how to solve your history issue, as I don't have enough knowledge of that, but seperating pages by era musn't be too difficult as most Sims that appear in multiple games have different infoboxes and info under ''The Sims 3'' subtitles. Again: it would take a lot of work, but I do think it might be worth it. [[User:DeSims|<b><span style="font-family:Calibri"><span style="color:#00ac35"><span style="font-size:23px">D</span>e</span><span style="font-size:19px"><span style="color:#0075ac"><span style="font-size:23px">S</span><span style="font-size:19px">ims</span></span></span></span></b>]] [[User_talk:DeSims|<span style="font-family:Papyrus"><span style="color:#0075ac"><sup><small>(talk)</small></sup></span></span>]] 16:56, June 14, 2019 (UTC)
==Closing==
There have been no contributions to this thread in nearly two years, so I'm closing due to inactivity. -- '''[[User:LostInRiverview|<span style="color:navy;">LostInRiverview</span>]]<sup> [[User_talk:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">talk</font>]] · [[User_blog:LostInRiverview|<font color="green">blog</font>]] · [[Special:Contributions/LostInRiverview|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]</sup>''' 17:20, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
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