Forum:For the wiki: What determines if a household is listed as a "household" or a "family" (Not as easy as it sounds)

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Forums: Index → Help desk → For the wiki: What determines if a household is listed as a "household" or a "family" (Not as easy as it sounds) | Post

I've been trying to make some updates to the wiki by following what's been done before as a guide, (improving where I can). I have a problem when it comes to making new articles for Sim families. When should they be called a "family" and when are they a "household".

Besides the obvious situations where either everyone is related (family) or nobody is (household) there has been little consistency. Here are some of the problem areas:

  1. What if a sim is the sole member of their household?
  2. What if the household is clearly a family but has a single non-related member living with them? (ex. Littler family)
  3. What if there's a household of room mates but within that house there are a pair of siblings? (ex. Caliente household)
  4. What if a situation exists like the one above but the related sims are cousins?

I think there should be some standard for this but I cannot find it. (If one gets decided from this discussion, the decision should be posted on the Template:FamilyInfobox page.

It seems to me that the rule should go something like:

  • If the household's name equals 50% or more of the inhabitants' last names AND they are related, the household is a family. (ie. A married couple with different last names would be a "family" if the household name was one of their's. However, two house mates that are not related would be a "household" even if both their last names were the same as the household name)
  • If the household name does not equal 50% or more of any related inhabitants' last names, it is a "household" unless the household name is clearly a variation of its inhabitants.
  • The household or family name should be as the game presents it with only "family" or "household" appended to the end.
To clarify, the Jones-Brown family would indeed be called a family as, although only one of the three inhabitants has that last name, it it clearly derived from her parents' names. However the Bird Sisters Household (which is called the Bird Family on this wiki) should be called the "Bird Sisters household" as there is no "Bird" household in the game.

I'm asking this to clarify (especially for single member households, which I think should be "family" in case there are other members elsewhere, they can be added to that family page) as I am in the process of updating Midnight Hollow and I want to get things in line for ITF when it comes out.

Any thoughts?

--Absimiliard (talk) 05:08, September 27, 2013 (UTC)Absimiliard

Although I'm not sure if we have an official guideline for this naming convention, I think it's pretty good if we can consider about it. Generally, the decision is made by common sense, although there could be some unique instances when common sense doesn't work. The following should be considered always true, as far as I can tell.
  • If a Sim is the sole member of the household, it's called "family", unless it's stated otherwise. For example, John Mole lives alone, so his family name is called "Mole family". However, Naomi Nita of Lucky Palms' family name is called "Survivalist" when checked from the Edit Town, so it's safe to assume to call her family name "Survivalist household".
  • In The Sims 3, the name of the family or household is basically determined from the family biography you see from Edit Town mode. Whether they're called "household" or "family" is then determined on our own. If the name is obviously not the family name (like Survivalist household mentioned above), it's simply called "household", but the condition isn't always the same for "family" though.
The only example I'm not sure to be consistent for The Sims 2 is Bell family though, since one of the members has different surname, but she's still blood-related.
I do agree with the three points you've stated there. They could be good standpoints to determine whether a family should be called "family" or "household". IMO, the Bird family should be renamed to Bird Sister household, since that's what the game refers them to.
Could there be any more cases of naming inconsistencies? I'm not sure about the Littler family and Caliente household. Nikel Talk – Vote! 10:49, September 29, 2013 (UTC)
I agree with the fact that the Bird family page should be renamed alongside other families/households with naming inconsistencies (Such as Elson family from Starlight Shores whereas its in-game household name is The Elson Family).
But what about families that has a 50-50 percentage of Sims with different last names? The Prince family from Midnight Hollow is a good example of this. They are blood-related (looking at the family description), but should they be called a family or a household considering that the teenagers in the household (which consists of half the household) has a different last name? EpicJoyBoy (talk) 13:52, September 29, 2013 (UTC)
I think it's safe that we should stick to the names that the developers already made, such as the example of the Bird family which should be named as Bird Sisters household, despite the two members are actually sisters.
About the Prince family from Midnight Hollow, well I'm not so sure but we can safely assume that the two members with Prince surname are already stated as the other two's grandparents. So we say that the Princes is the actual members (and possibly owners) of the house, with the other two joined them shortly after. That makes the family name is correct with the name Prince family (not household). --Walker guy94 Talk to me! 14:19, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback so far. I am glad people seem to be in agreement for the most part. I have an additional question, which should maybe be a different topic, but... I've noticed that many of the single-member families will have their family name listed in the neighbourhood (for example Farmwell household) and that the link goes directly to the sole member. This seems to be the common practive and makes some sense, I guess. The problem I see with it is that this negates the household page which contains information such as family funds, difficulty, house/lot info, and any theories as to possible relations to the home. Should every household have a page? I think so. --Absimiliard (talk) 19:07, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Per Nikel explanations here, he clearly explained to me that household informations such as household funds, household bio, household difficulty, etc are already covered in the neighborhood page. Unless the household has at least another related sim who already deceased, then we can create its family article. --Walker guy94 Talk to me! 01:48, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
As I recall, the question of whether or not to have articles for single-Sim households or families was discussed a long time ago. However, I don't think we ever came to a clear answer. I personally have always opted for not creating a family/household page unless there is more than one Sim, but I could see exceptions to that rule as well. -- LostInRiverview talk ~ blog 03:17, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
I believe "Farmwell household" was simply misspelled, and was supposed to be "Farmwell family".
Sims who live alone and have no other family members shouldn't have their own family page, as it would be redundant. Nikel Talk – Vote! 09:09, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
I really think there is some value in each household having their own entry. It seems to me that there are items that belong on the household/family pages more than anywhere else such as:
  • Household description
  • Family connections/Theories about familial relations
  • House information (the name size rooms, square footage, description)
  • A placeholder for future related households
If there has been a final word on the matter, should it be reopened? I understand that a single sim with no relations will have most of this info available somewhere else, but at the very least the home information has nowhere else to go (or do we make articles for houses?)
--Absimiliard (talk) 19:35, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Those informations are already covered in the neighborhood pages actually. However, since my return was only recent and I was never involved in the discussion regarding about single sim families, I never had the chance to voice my opinion about this matter. Though I'm pretty sure that making those pages seems necessary.

When I was completing the articles about Castaway Stories families, I was taking reference from other Sims Wiki. And yes, they still have those single sim family articles in place. My opinion, despite this discussion's already a long time ago, I would prefer if we re-discuss this matter as it looks like I'm in the same side as Absimiliard. Maybe there's a better solution to this. --Walker guy94 Talk to me! 02:58, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

What about the Wan-Goddard family? shouldn't this be changed in household too then? Tiezel (talk) curious? 18:05, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
It's exactly like Walker said. Those information has been covered in the neighborhood page (family funds, address, family description, etc.). I'm not in support to create a family page for Sims who live alone and has no extended relation. After all, what would be the difference written in the family page and the Sim page? What the family page describes will just point to the Sim him/herself, directly or not directly.
As for Wan-Goddard family... I'm inclined to think it's supposed to be Wan-Goddard household. How does that sound? Nikel Talk – Vote! 12:21, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
Wan-Goddard household sounds like a more proper name, I didn't even realized it at first. --Frostwalker Talk to me! 14:03, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
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